Mottlefeeder

I'm in a band that busks to raise money for Cancer Research UK. In the run up to Christmas we regularly play outdoors in temperature below 10 degrees. On one day, the car thermometer read 3 degrees an the way there, and also on my way home, so we probably played for 5 hours at about 4 or 5 degrees. As others have said, wear fingerless gloves, wooly hat and lots of layers. David

Anf other point that may help Keep the verse, chorus and bridge separate in your head. If one of them has a keychange, it can throw you off what you thought you had nailed down. Taking this example from our set list, I could not identify the key, but another musician pointed out that it was two keys (it's Tom Jones - Delilah) Verse: Dm /A7 /Dm /A7 /D7 /Gm /Dm /A7 /Dm /C7 / Chorus: F /C7 /F /F7 /Bb /Gm /F /C7 /F /A7 / There is more information in this thread - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/288025-here-are-the-chords-but-im-on-capo-4/ David

If you are playing rockabily on an acoustic instrument, you are probably not playing at pub-rock sound levels. Your gear is not in the budget bracket, so it ought to be working better than it is. When you say that the source is not the problem, you may be equating a 34 inch scale low-action instrument with a 41 inch scale high-action instrument based on them both having magnetic pickups. But the subsonics generated by the longer string, being plucked harder, will be substantially higher and this is where I think your problem lies. If you have access to a mixer with a high pass filter on it, try playing through that and into your existing setup. Those filters are typically set at about 75-80 Hz, and will give you the punchy sound you want while taking out the fundamental that is (probably) distressing your speaker. An MP3 will have bass that has probably been compressed or limited, so this can also be used to identify the problem. Yes is is possible that your amp just doesn't go loud enough, but in my experience, not amplifying stuff you don't want leaves much more power to amplify the stuff you do want. To put that in context, I'm using 150 Watts through a pair of 10 inch speakers and I'm playing a 5-string (low B) on outdoor gigs. It works because I have a high-pass filter. David

Third time lucky? So for you have discussed the amplifier and the speaker. Just supposing that it is your instrument that is generating the problem - you could spend quite a lot of money on an amplifier whose power you can not use, and a speaker that farts even more because you have put it a box that was not designed for it. May I suggest that before you spend any money, you do some more testing with other signal sources - conventional bass guitar, MP3s that have a bass solo on them - anything other that a DB with a Piezo pickup - and find out if they fart too, or can be played at the higher volumes that you want. David

[quote name='Wayne Firefly' timestamp='1488551348' post='3249947'] So the existing pre amp / tone controls would not work then ? Looks like a combo search then !! [/quote] A cheaper interim solution might be to turn down the bass a lot, turn up the volume to find out how loud it gets, then start bringing the bass back in. If you can get enough volume, but with not quite enough bass, then a high pass filter may be all you need. David

A common problem with amplified uprights is that the sub-bass as you pluck the string is lower than the speaker can cope with, so it farts. Once you have got rid of that problem, you may find that your existing gear can be turned up to be loud enough. If you search on 'Thumpinator' or 'FDeck' or 'high pass filter' you will find several options to filter out that low frequency content without strangling your sound (FDeck is the designer of one of them). Alternatively, I am based in Warrington, and would be happy to meet up so you can try my high pass filters (based on the FDeck design). David

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1488537839' post='3249737'] How did you get varnish to stay on a waxy finish like boot polish ? [/quote] From what I remember, I was using black and a couple of shades of brown, and white spirit to take off the excess, so by the time I had finished the surface was clean and did not feel waxy. I assume that the solvents in the varnish would disolve and blend with any sub-surface wax. David

I use a Snark clip-on, and it is sensitive to position. At the end of the headstock, it loses the B and the E, unless you press the transducer hard against the headstock, then it picks it up. Alternatiely, moving it closer to the nut works, but may get in the way when you need to get to a tuning head. I also have a headless bass tuned BEAD, and the Snark works fine clipped onto the volume control knob. David

Many years ago I stripped the varnish off an old chair leg as I repaired it, then tinted it with a mix of brown and black shoe polish to bring it close to the original colour, and then I revarnished it with a clear varnish. Yes it works, providing the wood surface is not sealed, and provided that you seal it afterwards. David

Just to echo all the comments above, I had a great day, and I'm very grateful to Chris and Kevin for setting it up. It was interesting to try / hear things I had only read about, but nice that I came away without feeling that anything there would make a significant difference to my bass playing. When first I arrived, I walked into the main bar area, and the bar-person and security person conferred and told me that there was no bass-players' event on that day. Fortunately, I stuck around and eventually found another entrance with a B/chat notice on it. For anyone who sets up another bass bash, may I suggest that a contact mobile number is PM'd to all delegates for use in emergencies. David

[quote name='i81b4u-ou812' timestamp='1486672132' post='3233775'] Hi guys, is this still going ahead? [/quote] As far as I know. There was one planned for March that has just been cancelled - that may be what you heard about. David

[quote name='BassApprentice' timestamp='1486569517' post='3232878'] Side note. What are peoples experience with steel strings on U basses? Is it worth just sticking with the rubber(y) ones? [/quote] As far as I am aware, the only metal strings that fit a 20-22 inch scale are the Pyramid ones mentioned above. David

I have the Countryman with Thundergut strings, but I found I was getting confused switching between that and a 5-string bass, so I bought a 5-string set for the U-bass and strung it BEAD (The 5-string set is intended for a 23 inch neck, so it may not work on the 20 inch Kala. The Countryman is a 22 inch neck, so in proportional terms the string tension is equivalent to an E string in drop D tuning). The Countryman was £150, and has a 3-band eq and tuner built in. The cheapest Kala was £250, and had volume and tone, and no tuner. I use it for open mic nights, and as a space-saver spare for gigs, and I'm bringing it to the NW Bass Bass if anyone wants to try it. David

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]1. Funkgod[/b] -[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Wal , [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Goodfellow classic (86/7 number 42, one of bernies kirtchen table ones)[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]G&L L2000E (a very rare 1980), [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Mucicman sabre '79, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Fender jazz fotoflame, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Fender Jazz in metalic burnt tangereen,,,, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif],[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] HK 6 string fretless Amazing value for money.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Swr red head, 2x10 combo, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Swr red head 2x10 combo with swr 2x10 ext cab, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Swr SM500 pro, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Swr 6x10 Goliath.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]2. Lurksalot [/b]- Spector Euro4 , Spector Legend4, TC RH750 , TC RS212 & RS210[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]3. MrZed[/b] - [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Musicman 25th Anniversary and Stingray HH along with my Genz Benz STL9.0 and Berg HD210's [/font][/color] [b]4. Les [/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]- '79 Stingray, '78 Sabre, '68 Mustang[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]5. ChunkyMunky[/b] - Musicman Bongo 5HH, Another Musicman, Genz Benz Shuttle 12.0, cabinet (Probably a Berg or Barefaced)[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]6. Josie[/b] - probablqy three GMRs (two 5s and a fretless 4) (and/or two non-standard Fender Jazzes - how to decide? [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]) and definitely cake.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]7. Vinny - [/b]BB-1X, Smooth Hound[/font][/color] [b]8. Musicman20 -[/b] [b]9. MisterT - [/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sterling SB14, Eden WTX500, Vanderkley 112MNT x1, only 2 pedals of note: BeatBuddy & Pigtronix Envelope Phaser.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]10. JellyKnees[/b] - Dingwall ABZ5, Tune Maniac fretless, Barefaced BigOne, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Markbass Little Mark Tube 500[/font][/color] [b]11. ead[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] - Some ACGs, maybe something else too if I have an interesting bass knocking about, Gen 2 (I think) Barefaced Compact and Midget, GB Streamliner 600[/font][/color] [b]12. ribbetingfrog - [/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif](only have one bass so that'l be an easy choice) [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]13.[/b] [b]Bassman Sam.[/b][/font][/color] [b]14. AndyTravis - [/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]original batwing Aria SB-1000 to bring, a heavily modded Nate Mendel Fender. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Contenders also include a graphite necked peavey 5 and a few pedals. Ashdown [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]rootmaster evo 800 rig.[/font][/color] [b]15. Bass Culture[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] - Zoot Custom Medium scale & possibly Zoot Custom fretless. RH750 & Barefaced BB2 if needed.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]16. BigLump [/b]- “real basses”! :-)[/color][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]17. Zootchaser[/b] - Zoot Iceni bass, Reidmar head[/color][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]18. afterimage[/b][/color][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]19. tommorichards[/b] - [/color][color=#282828]Ampeg svt cl w/ 810 fridge, maybe my marshall vba400 if it fits, '76 4001 rick, modded, 4004 rick, fender jazz w/ flats and 62 style pots, gibson explorer bass, moonshine gretsch bitsa bass[/color][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]20. Skol303[/b] - [/color][color=#282828]"idiot's guide to home recording[/color][color=#282828]”[/color][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]21. Mr H[/b] - Fret King Esprit, Charvel Model 2B x2, Peavey Cirrus BXP 5-er, something else to fill the rack, maybe EBS Reidmar 250 with 1x10 cab[/color][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]22. Owen[/b] - Shuker, Shuker/Firecreek, Shuker/Godfellow (prob for sale), Jule Monique and Berg IP310.[/color][/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][b]23. kevvo66[/b] - basses and maybe a rig or two. Schroeder mini cabs, gk mb800 amp and maybe my phill jones cab [/color][/font][/color] [b]24 AdamWoodBass[/b] [b]25 Mottlefeeder - [/b][color=#000000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]2 x Jack 10s, 2 x home-brew 10 cabs, 5-string acoustic bass (Ibanez EWB205), Bass-Uke tuned BEAD & variable high-pass and low-pass filters.[/color][/font][/color]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1486459294' post='3231866'] ...David, PU glue is great when you don't have accurate joints and need to fill gaps, but these braces really do need to be pressed very tightly to the cabinet panels for optimal effect. If there is a slight gap because the brace (or shelf) hasn't been cut correctly or fixed down tightly, it won't work properly. While the gap-filling properties of polyurethene will prevent vibration if the joint isn't perfect, you really don't want any gaps at all. The damping effect of attaching bracing comes more from stiffening the panels than any properties of the glue. In fact, you can hear the effect of the brace just by pressing it tightly on the panel without gluing - which is how I arrived at the positioning of the bracing for this box. [/quote] OK thanks for that. David

[quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1486160392' post='3229824'] I've used both softwood and ply to brace my builds, but always rebated into the panel. My 'test' was far less scientific than Stevie with his test tones, but I found that whilst ply 'on edge' added a lot of rigidity to the panel, the softwood wasn't far behind and it definitely had a damping effect which i guess is because the softwood would have a different natural frequency to the ply. [/quote] I've braced my cabs with plywood shelves, but used a foaming polyurethane glue, as recommended by Bill Fitzmaurice to ensure airtight joints - is that likely to provide more damping than a solid 'resin W' type glue joint? David

If it's not too late, please add me to the list of attendees. I'll be bringing: 2 x Jack 10s, 2 x home-brew 10 cabs, 5-string acoustic bass (Ibanez EW205), Bass Uke tuned BEAD & variable high-pass and low-pass filters. Notes... Home brew cabs detailed here http://basschat.co.uk/topic/295833-thoughts-on-cab-build-for-basslites-s2010/page__fromsearch__1 High pass filters are an op-amp equivalent to the Fdeck design David

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' timestamp='1480697533' post='3186565'] Interesting, is it a more neutral sound than the jack's? Also how heavy were the jack's? [/quote] The Jacks go lower, and have a mid-range hump, so without EQ they can sound a bit 'cardboard box' like. With EQ they sound good, and are louder than a straight reflex enclosure - but you pay for that with the increased size. New reflex cab sitting on a Jack 10. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1506_zpsybjeoq43.jpg.html"][/url] By removing the lowest 'muddy' octave, but having a strong output just above that, my reflex boxes sound punchier, but still have enough lows to vibrate the floorboards. The mids are smooth enough that flat-wound strings on an ABG sound good without the need for a tweeter. Unfortunately I don't have a weight for the Jack 10 with S2010. David

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' timestamp='1480516173' post='3185029'] What's the finished product like? How does it sound? It looks like a great job [/quote] The complete speaker weighs about 7 kg, so it is an easy load in, whether it is from the carpark to the stage, or parking a street away from the pub. Also, it's small enough that you don't have a problem getting through doors, and the small footprint makes it easy to find space for it. How does it sound - well I'm obviously very biased, but it does what I wanted, very well. I play mainly acoustic bass guitar and it sounds natural with that, with both bass- and amp-EQ set level. It is loud enough to keep up with acoustic guitars going through the PA. Having decided that I preferred it to the sound of my Jack 10s, I've taken the driver out of the other Jack 10 and built a second one of these, and the pair are greater than the sum of the parts - as well as being louder, the bass goes deeper, I recently took a bass, both cabs and a 12 +12 watt battery-powered amp into central Manchester by tram and spent the day busking - everything else went through the PA, but that rig was all that I needed. You probably would not contemplate doing that with most commercial amplifiers/speaker combinations. Hope that helps David

Bill gives the dimensions of the Simplex 10 as 18 x 16.5 x 14 inches, which is not exactly small. Also, if you model an S2010 in that size of enclosure (about 1.8 cu ft when you allow for the wood thickness and the grill clearance), the power handling is quite poor - 80 watts at about 70Hz with a 58Hz port, or 60 watts at about 70 Hz with a 40Hz port. I went for a smaller box that does not go as deep, but handles more power; Bill has gone for a larger box to give better bottom end, but the trade-off is the power handling. David

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1480442553' post='3184467'] ...Do you mind me nicking the plans? ... Fraser [/quote] No problem at all. If there is anything missing, let me know - e.g.foam/wadding I used 1 inch foam from a scrapped hifi speaker for my first cab, and 1.5 inches of wadding in the second cab. - They both sound good. David

Firstly, an apology - I pulled up the wrong WinISD file, so in my last post, the box volume and tuning frequenies are wrong - they came from another version. [u]The background[/u] I seemed to be playing mostly in rooms full of acoustic players, and a pair of Jack 10s (20 x 15 x 16 inches each) would have been a little intrusive. My Hartke Kickback 10 sounded good, but weighed too much for a long walk from the carpark, so I decided to try making a smaller box that I could sit on, using an Eminence Basslite S2010 from one of the Jacks. A bassist on the US Talkbass (Fdeck) has a DIY section on his website, and talks about making smaller boxes because he does not need extreme bass, so my starting point was to try and find out what my upper limit was for falling bass response. Using the variable-frequency high-pass filter in a Fishman preamp, and double checking with another one on my graphic EQ, I came to the conclusion that I could live with a -3dB point of 65-70 Hz, but any higher than that sounded distinctly bass-lite. Fdeck suggests tuning the port to suit the lowest note you want to play, then varying the box size to give you the low frequency cut-off that you want. I modelled the box in WinISD - a speaker design program. Unfortunately, with this speaker, tuning the box to accommodate a 30Hz lowest note gives a gently falling bass response that starts at about 150Hz. I built one, and did not like the sound. [u]The design[/u] Using WinISD I came up with a box size of 0.9 cu ft, with a shelf port tuned to 58Hz. This is similar to an Eminence published design from their website, [url="http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Basslite_S2010_cab.pdf"]http://www.eminence....e_S2010_cab.pdf[/url] but there is a risk of cone over-extension below 50Hz, so depending on what is played through it, it may need a high-pass filter or something similar. The attached screen shots are from WinISD Green = 0.9 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; no filter Grey = 0.9 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; 55Hz 12dB/Octave filter Red = 1.1 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; 55Hz 12dB/Octave filter Frequency response - the larger enclosure is louder between 50 and 100Hz, as expected [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20response_zpsp9isiphu.jpg.html"][/url] Power handling - the larger box has worse power-handling in the 70-100Hz region [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20power%20handling_zpsj2vu8ru2.jpg.html"][/url] Cone movement at 120W - without the filter, the cone excursion exceeds Xmax at about 50Hz. This means distorsion, but not damage. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20cone%20movement_zpsyld8w0x7.jpg.html"][/url] [u]The build[/u] The box was made from 12 inch wide 9mm ply, which I happened to have around, and the wall bracing was 4mm ply. Front and side section view [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1775_zpszgcmghya.jpg.html"][/url] I used polyurethane wood glue because it foams as it sets, giving a very strong and airtight join. The pictures show the build, but not the mounting ring behind the baffle - this was added later when I realised that the speaker would sit further forward than I expected. Also, the bracing rib was extended to the full length of the port shelf. I lined the inside with 1 inch foam from a scrapped hifi speaker for my first cab, and 1.5 inches of wadding in the second cab. - They both sound good. Do not put foam or wadding within 1.5 inches of the inside end of the port. Box without second side - apologies for the Guardian centre fold! [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0852_zps2082ac9e.jpg.html"][/url] Box compared with an Hartke Kickback 10 - now obsolete [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] Modified baffle - the blocks on the back wall are the wells for a plate-amplifier fixing screws. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0875_zpsd85388f5.jpg.html"][/url] Completed speaker box beside a battery-powered plate amplifier [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] David

I'm not sure how to upload drawings on this site, so I will probably have to photograph them and load them in as images. Meanwhile... I used WinISD to calculate the frequencies and volumes, and came out with a design somewhere between the two smaller Eminence designs. The box volume is 0.77 cu ft and the port is tuned to 63 Hz. This is a compromise - a bigger box could go lower, but it will handle less power before the speaker reaches its limits. In this design, the speaker will handle 100 Watts down to 50 Hz, and with a high pass filter set at 55Hz, it will handle 120W without going beyond Xmax. Since a bass guitar note is mainly a mix of fundamental and lower harmonics, and you do not normally hear much of the fundamental, designing it out gives you a smaller box, and few downsides. If that goes totally over your head, I'm playing a 5-string BEADG-tuned bass, using an amplifier that produces about 220 Watts into an 8 ohm speaker rated for 150 Watts, and you can feel the bass through the floor, even though the fundamental is being filtered out. Used without a filter, you need to listen for signs of distress, but it still goes pretty loud. The speaker box is based on a 12 inch wide piece of 9mm plywood. The top, back, bottom, port-shelf and baffle are all 12 inches wide, and the side panels are 12 inches deep. The external dimensions are 12 inches deep by 12.75 inches wide (12 inches plus two 9mm thicknesses) by 15.5 inches high. The port is 7.6 inches long, 12 inches wide, and 1 inch deep. The baffle is set back by 3/4 inch, and the grill is set back 3/8 inch. However, the speaker sealing ring is quite unyielding, and pushed the speaker further out towards the grill than I wanted it to be, so the speaker is mounted on plywood ring glued behind the baffle, so that its front edge is flush with the baffle front. - this will also help to stiffen the baffle. The top, bottom, port shelf and sides are braced with 2 inch wide 1/8 ply running front to back at their midpoints, and the back has a cross of bracing where the vertical and horizontal braces meet. Photographs of the build, and my sketches, to follow. David

I went down this road a couple of years ago and have been very happy with the results. I'm happy for you to check them out - I'm based in Warrington if that is anywhere near you. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] This is the speaker cab beside the Hartke 10 - no longer in production. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] The finished speaker cab beside a 150w battery-powered amp, based on a car audio system. David

I don't, but my build thread for a kit from guitar warehouse is here http://finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=10950 if that helps (Unfortunately the link will only work if you are a member on finnbass - the DIY forum is locked to visitors) David