Owen

A furry leopard print cover is very good at suppressing resonance

In a sensitive unamplified trio situation, or a solo recital you 100% could hear the difference. In an amplified situation with some noisy brass or guitars or somesuch - a £500 bass would not sound 100 times worse than a £50K bass - and the tone is as much to do with your pick-up and rig as your bass. So, to summarise - a more expensive bass, with the right strings for your style and well set-up is lusher than a lush thing, however, a cheap bass with the right strings for your style and well set-up, while not being as lush as a more expensive one, it is not necessarily un-lush. Ahhhhhhh I can feel a virtual hug coming on Feel the love people! [quote name='jakesbass' post='155203' date='Mar 11 2008, 11:46 AM']For what its worth I've been playing Double for 27 years professionally for 17 and I've had similar experiences regarding buying and selling as you. As it happens, I agree with most of your post and in fact I think the pricing by dealers is bordering on criminal, is not based on demand as they have lots of them stockpiled and in many cases can't shift them, and it serves as a bar to young players getting started on something decent. The only point at which I think its worth having a high financial value on a bass is to make people look after them so they last a long time, we are after all, only temporary keepers, not owners. Cheaper basses [i]are[/i] getting better but they don't compare to hand carved instruments, (I've played basses from £250-£50,000) and I don't agree about people not being able to tell the difference. They may not really notice if your tone is average or below, but they [i]do[/i] notice if its enourmous and lovely sounding. While we agree on most things in this thread I think the single most impotant thing those of us who are more experienced should offer as advice to the uninitiated is, try lots of basses and find one that suits your playing, feels comfortable, and sounds like you want it to sound. If you can get all that for £500, great. Jake Edit: "Also not all instruments hold their value and certainly do not appreciate. The market is driven by age and condition NOT exclusively how well an instrument plays. You could have a great instrument that responds like no other. If you have a large repaired crack in it then it's value drops immediately. I am selling a 1880 (ish) 'cello at the moment. It sounds good and plays easily. It is valued by a reputable dealer at £4K. It has had a neck snap, well-repaired and rock solid for at least a quarter of a century.I cannot shift it for £2.5K. It depends on the market when you are selling. Not all expensive instruments are maintanence free. I used to have a nice old French bass that needed constant encouragement to hold together at the bottom. When I was looking to buy a new bass about 10 years ago I went round all the usual suspects in the London area. I was being offered a max of £2K on what I had and the price of anything that was SIGNIFICANTLY nicer was £8 or 9K. Dealers are out to make as much money as they can, like any other retailers, they are not doing it for the love" FWIW. yes yes and yes to this. I agree[/quote]

[size=1][size=2]I think that while your approach is, as you say cheap and cheerful, it is a little simplistic, and you don't have to go from one extreme to another £350 straight to £30K there are plenty of good basses for between 1K and 5K that have a really good tone and will hold their value if you buy one. [/size] [/size] Not simplistic, just 25 years experience of being around basses and buying for myself and for students. There are plenty of good basses out there. A £350 bass with a good set of second hand strings and a decent set up is not something that is just to be dismissed. If someone wants a DB but does not have between £1K and 5K to drop on one, should they just give up? You can do so much more than "thumping" on such an instrument. [size=1][size=2]You may be happy to be 'thumping' and that is a good start, but a really nice tone on a double bass is something quite luxurious which makes the whole experience that much more enjoyable. For me, life is way too short to get by with mediocre tone.The only reason I'm adding this is that I think many people are put off by cheap basses as they can be hard to play and often don't sound like people expect a DB to sound, although cheaper basses are sounding better these days. Jake[/size] [/size] Everybody wants the best kit possible. BUT you can get good tone from a cheaper bass with good strings. a good set up and a decent pick up. 10 years ago anything under £1k would have been not good. Times have changed. A cheap bass with cheap strings and not properly set-up will be manky. A cheap bass with decent strings and a decent set-up will be just fine and dandy. If you were playing bass guitar professionally you would probably not be using an Encore P bass (actually no good reason not to [if it is a P bass gig] other than vanity, and again I totally include myself in that statement) - but it is likely that that is where you started (or similar). If you started on an Encore then it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better than the disaster that my first bass guitar was. Also not all instruments hold their value and certainly do not appreciate. The market is driven by age and condition NOT exclusively how well an instrument plays. You could have a great instrument that responds like no other. If you have a large repaired crack in it then it's value drops immediately. I am selling a 1880 (ish) 'cello at the moment. It sounds good and plays easily. It is valued by a reputable dealer at £4K. It has had a neck snap, well-repaired and rock solid for at least a quarter of a century.I cannot shift it for £2.5K. It depends on the market when you are selling. Not all expensive instruments are maintanence free. I used to have a nice old French bass that needed constant encouragement to hold together at the bottom. When I was looking to buy a new bass about 10 years ago I went round all the usual suspects in the London area. I was being offered a max of £2K on what I had and the price of anything that was SIGNIFICANTLY nicer was £8 or 9K. Dealers are out to make as much money as they can, like any other retailers, they are not doing it for the love.

Teacher. Yes. £1K + to begin with on a bass? No. If you want to play the music of dead "classical" composers then you will eventually need a more expensive instrument. But to start thumping in a jazz, folk, show or whatever setting a £350 double bass [url="http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instruments/Double_Bass.html"]http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instrumen...ouble_Bass.html[/url] + a set of second hand strings off Talkbass (£50) + some adjusters on your bridge (£20 from Gollihur [all hail!]) and fitting them (£30-£50) and you are good to go. A pick up £50 second hand off Talkbass again. The Gear 4 Music basses come with MAHOOSIVE "hard" (covered polystyrene) cases which one of my pupils sold on Ebay for £120 - cost of bass £220! Yes, you can spend £sillyK on a bass and it will be lusher than a lush thing. This would come later. Crazily, a good bow will cost you upward of £1K. Once you have played with a nice one you will not want to go back. Getting a decent pizz (plucked) sound out of a DB is not rocket-science, getting a nice arco (bowed) sound is the most difficult thing (see comments about teacher above!) Solid top vs ply. For a beginner, not a lot of difference. Ply is actually going to be more road worthy anyway. Strings and bridge height are MUCH more important. A £450 set up is probably akin to an Encore P bass. Chuck an SD Quarter Pounder pick up into it and set it up well and in a blindfold test perhaps 5% could tell the difference between it and a "name" bass. Thrown into a live band mix, no one could tell the difference. If you are amplifying the bass then a decent set of strings/set-up and a decent pick-up with decent buffering of the pick up is WAY more important than anything else. I have 3 pupils with these cheap and cheerful boxes. Two are going for grade 8 at the moment. Yes they would sound better with an Italian master instrument from 200 or whatever years ago (£30k+), but they just do not have the money. Would they sound 100 times better? No. The double bass world is the same as any other instrumental community. "I would be a better player with better kit". No you would not necessarily be. You would be a better player if you practiced more and spent less time reading bass forums about what is hot and what is not. I am more guilty than most in this respect.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='152976' date='Mar 7 2008, 11:51 AM']and a Gibson ES175 that I love the sound of but art?[/quote] There was Gibson ES175 Bass in the Gallery a few years. It was lusher than a lush thing. If I'd had £1K on me I would not have been able to stop myself.

Oh YES!

Whatever you get make sure you can live with the sound of the fans. Some amps have loud fans, some have quiet ones.

You could just flog me the 15"!

Correct me if I'm wrong here (and I probably am) - chucking is like playing with a pick - but without a pick. Yes/no?

<cough> [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7971&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7971&hl=[/url]

I would pay good money for the guts of a 5HH Bongo. I can live with the looks, and the sound was 'da BOMB, but I was not lovin the 34" B and the lower horn dug into my leg when I sat down. Not cool.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='105269' date='Dec 17 2007, 11:49 AM']& the drummer is beautiful.[/quote] <sigh> why can't we just appreciate players for what they have to say instead of how they look. So shallow........... oh......... sorry............... I'll get my coat...............

Multi band compression on classical is the horriblest thing ever. The whole sound changes. There is a light classical prog on Radio Cymru (Welsh radio). Radio Cymru is put through M B C. The prog is on on every Sunday morning. Until I knew about M B C I was absolutely convinced that the presenter had his own weird reverb unit which he put across everything to get a signature "sound" for his programme. Amongst other things, all the upper strings become un-naturally pronounced and shimmer - but not in a good way. I used to lie in bed trying not to listen to it, but my wife used it as an alarm. It has now moved slot. Phew.