peteb

I will always count if I need to! I suppose that technically you are right that the guitar solo is 17 bars long, but that is because he holds the last note for an extra bar at the end. I think that for someone trying to learn to play the part, it is probably easier to think of it as 16 bars made up of eight 2 bar phrases with a sustained note at the end. Personally I've always thought of it as a set filler, generally when I'm playing deps, and haven't analysed it that much. I've gigged it many times (as I most likely will again on Saturday night depping for a band) and the above approach has always worked fine for me! PS. Evil Undead's transcription above is pretty close to what I play.....

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1352836855' post='1868225'] This is what I play. I couldn't tab the rhythm but its easy enough to figure that bit out. It's definitely not right but sounds fine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------5--6--7---5--6--7------------------------------------------ -7-----7--5-------------------------4--5--6--7-----7--5--7--8--9--9----- ----0---------------------------------------------0--------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -10--12--0--4--5--7------7--5---------0--0--4--5--0--4--5--7---7--5- -------------------------0---------3--2--------------------------------0--- --------------5--6--7--------------------------------------------------------- ---5--6--7------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------4--5--6--7------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [/quote] Close enough for jazz (as the old saying goes)!!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1352831638' post='1868107'] It's odd. From memory as above it's just chromatics but it's not exactly 16 bars long. [/quote] Count it out in your head - a straightforward 16 bars (divided into 2 sections of 8 bars)!

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1352813782' post='1867693'] Can anyone help me work out what is going on under the guitar solo? I have worked out the first few bars of the solo, but it seems to go off on a tangent with those chromatic runs. [/quote] You are pretty much on the right lines anyway re the tangential chromatic runs! Try breaking the passage down into bits. The solo is 16 bars long, so think of it as eight phrases of 2 bars each. The first four notes of each 2 bar phrase are the same, generally followed by three chromatic runs of three notes each. Note that a couple of the phrases in the first eight bars are repeated second time around! It's not the most precise bass part around, so it won't matter too much if you get the runs in the wrong order or put you're own in of you feel like it, as long as you keep that chromatic feel going......

[color=#222222]Similar thing happened at a gig in the 80s when we were supporting a band with Frankie Miller’s old guitar player (Ray someone or other). Apparently it’s a bit of a common problem with guitars that have necks made from mahogany. The thing was that it was a 59 Les Paul worth an absolute fortune![/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]We put him onto a guy in Bradford who sorted it out and did a really good job! Still, it must have knocked thousands of the value of the guitar, which was pretty much the guy’s pension……[/color]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1351029441' post='1846530'] I play a bass, people ask me to be in their bands, I must be a bass player [/quote] As far as I am concerned I am a ‘musician’ generally, but first and foremost I’m a bass player! I play a little bit of classical guitar, for my own amusement and for family & friends, etc. However, I wouldn’t dream of playing classical guitar at a gig in front of an audience of strangers, whereas I regularly will with a bass!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1351007309' post='1846129'] Maybe '[i]that [/i]guy' knows you personally; nothing to do with your bass playing..? [/quote] Perhaps there is a more personal reason? Years ago a guy used to come and see a band I was in and always used talk to the guitarist afterwards, telling him that the band was great but should get rid of the bass player as he was crap! We had to explain that perhaps he was a little bit biased in his assessment of my abilities, possibly because I had slept with his girlfriend!

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1350593656' post='1841133'] Ah, The Tyne. Lovely bar. I would go, but I will be setting off to practice at 4, which happens to be about 600 metres from that very pub. You will no doubt be able to hear us. [/quote] Pop in for a pint when you take a break! [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1350594561' post='1841148'] Y'know, I have nowt planned, and the Tyne is one of my favourite gigs, so I might just pop along for a bit... [/quote] Cool - be good to meet you again..... Nice to hear that it's a good gig, looking forward to it!

Just been told that now we're starting at 4.00pm after the football......

[color=#222222]If any inhabitants of the Geordie Delta fancy a beer and some blues this Sunday afternoon, I will be playing with Rhythm Zoo at the Tyne Bar in Newcastle (1 Maling Street NE6 1LP) – kick off supposedly at 3.00pm[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]Come and say hi if you come down (I’ll be the one in the corner holding a bass guitar)…..[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222][url="http://www.thetyne.com/"][color="#0000ff"]http://www.thetyne.com/[/color][/url][/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222][url="http://rhythm-zoo.com/"][color="#0000ff"]http://rhythm-zoo.com/[/color][/url][/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#000000"] [/color][/size][/font]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1350288847' post='1836719'] Yep - very true. The fact that other people value my time and aquired skills enough to reward me financially - a real and proven recogniton of my professional level , self -achieved technical standards and attitude - means more to me than any actual fee. It's a feeling of satisfaction I can take to the jam nights , fundraisers and other loss making projects that I choose to get involved in as well as to the paid gigs. If anyone wants to always play for free - for whatever reason and whether covers or originals - and by doing so help to make profit for an individual , or individuals , in business purely to make money - and that player is happy for that situation to continue however skilled and popular they become ......... there is a problem in that person's reasoning. I would have no respect for their attitude and be wary of their motivations. There is nothing wrong at all with playing for fun - waiving fees for promotional purposes or exposure (after first checking the motivations of those asking you to do so) or a hundred other reasons - but purely allowing others to make money off your back and not wanting your fair share is not just wrong , it's stupid. [/quote] I think that the good Doctor has summed it up nicely! To state the obvious one more time, no half decent covers band routinely play for no money.....

The reason for insisting on being paid is not [b]just[/b] about money! In a few weeks I’m playing at a blues club in the Cotswolds, which means half a day off work, a round trip of over 360 miles and a cheap hotel. Therefore I’m losing money as it’s costing me £50 in petrol and £20 for the room before I even buy a pint or any food when we’re getting paid £250 for a 4 piece band. However, there is [b]no way I would do it without being paid[/b]. The reason I am doing it is because it will raise the band’s profile on a national circuit and I know it will be a good event. The promoter has invested in paying £600 for two bands (I understand that the headliners are on £350) and is expecting to make a decent profit on the night and therefore won’t scrimp on a few quid for promoting the night and will make a point of posting it on facebook, local gig guides, putting up posters, etc. Last year I played in Nottingham with a different band where we were on the door take. We got there and the promoter hadn’t bothered to publicise it at all and no one knew that there was a band playing. But then again, he didn’t stand to lose money himself so why should he bother?? I don’t know a single decent band that would play a pub gig for nothing unless there was a good reason…….

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1350034022' post='1833704'] Its not up to him to judge whether its a legacy or not. [/quote] History will be the final judge but he has more right than you or me [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1350035736' post='1833733'] You mentioned earlier that there was something 'magical' about them. One of the biggest contributing factors to this - which Page and Grant got spot-on - is their reluctance to do TV shows, release singles etc. etc. all the way through to a refusal by some of the band to do a reunion tour. It all feeds the fire of the Zeppelin myth. It hurts - I adore them and I'd love to see 'em. [/quote] Absolutely

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1350033726' post='1833698'] I think its selfish at worst and self depreciating at best. The band has already acknowledged their impact on popular music, they're every bit as significant as The Beatles. They should share it...if nothing it would cement their place in musical immortality. [/quote] Dunno about selfish, it's his legacy and up to him to decide what to do with it! However, it is a shame......

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1350025690' post='1833564'] Thanks I love Led Zep and I'm not into rock at all. But there was something magical about them. So much power and professionalism from three people. I REALLY wish they'd reform and do a few more concerts. I'd fly from NZ for a ticket. I disagree with Plants perception of raking over the coals. Its more about sharing a legacy with a new generation. I wasn't able to attend concerts when Led Zep were in their prime. They could be cementing their legacy rather than being a shadow of their former selves. This is about being generous, not about protecting integrity. [/quote] Not that I disagree but the trouble is that Zep always has an air of mistique about them! It seems that Plant feels that a full blown reunion will diminish that whereas a one off gig out of nowhere just helps to sustain the legacy! He may be right, but I for one would love the chance to see LZ live.....

Thanks for that......

Some of their set list doesn't really cry out '4 piece brass section' to me! Sex On Fire with a full brass section - different anyway......

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1349946837' post='1832484'] I guess its easier to enjoy playing this stuff for fun when you are generally satisfied with the stuff you do all of the time. If I did 200 great gigs a year, doing 2 tribute gigs or whetever may float my boat. It is the idea of doing the 200 gigs of this stuff that puts me off (mind you, doing ANY of the gigs by the three people you named would not really work for me either! ). [/quote] Different things for different people - playing Van Halen songs with Paul Gilbert would be my idea of heaven...!

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1349905817' post='1832220'] One problem I have with all of this is that the ones who claim bands playing for free take money from "better" bands, in the same breath will say that if you don't charge, you're obviously crap and who would want you to play for them anyway? It's two faced and both faces are wrong. [/quote] If I put a band together to play pubs and go out for, say £200 to £250 (average pub gig fee these days around here), then we will not competing with the likes of Jake or Doddy who will be playing, for example, corporate / function gigs that pay much better. But neither will we be competing with bands that will play for free or go out for £80, as they will be playing the pubs that the better local bands avoid because they won’t pay the going rate! The problem is that this starts to distort the market for live music, which is rather fragile at the moment. The new landlord at an established music venue may be tempted to think that he can get away with paying bands less as that is what the the pub down the road is doing and then wonders why his attendances are dropping alarmingly. He then stops putting on bands and changes to karaoke or some other abomination before going out of business six months later. Similarly punters wonder why the quality of bands isn’t as good as it used to be and stay in on a Saturday night with a DVD rather than going out to watch live music……….

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1349876875' post='1831639'] I can't ever get past the fact that a great cover is only a cover. There is a simple buzz to be got from a job well done but it has always remained a shallow victory for me. [/quote] I appreciate that it might not be the same as creating your own material but surely you must admit that it is great fun to get to grips with the music that your favourite bands made. Even players of the caliber of Paul Gilbert, Billy Sheehan & Mike Portnoy (along with various singers) get together to play tribute gigs of their heroes (Led Zep, The Who & Rush, etc) just for fun! Some of the best moments of my recent musical life have been in a rehearsal room playing in a band with a s*** hot guitarist jamming Highway Star or working out Led Zep, Van Halen & Randy Rhodes era Ozzy material note for note, seeing how it was put together and knowing that you are doing these great pieces of music justice. Almost gives you an idea of what it was like to have been in that rehearsal studio when the songs that made you want to play in the first place were put together! Sometimes it is satisfying enough to simply know that you are standing in the footsteps of giants…..

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1349795413' post='1830638'] It's just half step back, i say keep the same strings. You'll notice the slightest diference on the first couple of times you use the bass after detuning but you'll grow acostumed to it. IMHO i don't think there will be much difference in sound to justify raising the caliber of the strings on such a small detune. It will all come down to your preference, try it and see for yourself if you can live with the diference, don't forget to do a full setup if needed. [/quote] The trouble is if you have a bass with a very low action then it does make a big difference - as I found out when I did a last minute dep with a band who tune down! There are loads of top bands with quality bass players who play in E flat and I doubt that they put up with floppy strings or a high action, so presumably there must be a way of setting up a bass properly when it's tuned down!

Just to go against the perceived wisdom here, but for me the Badass is a significant improvement over the BBOT! Whenever I've had a Fender I have always replaced both the bridge and pickups.....

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1349717194' post='1829561'] Simple economics around her are something like this.. Venue has to sell the equivalent of 200 pints per night to pay an band £300..and if they have security, maybe that is more..depends if that is sorely on the music night. In my town of around 130,000 there can be 5 regular town venues with recognised bands..and then any number of other efforts. There are only 2 fully regular and recognised venues/pubs that all the better bands in the county would acknowledge... altho you could sub-divide the county into 3 or 4 regions. These venues have worked very hard over a long period..18 months plus, to get where they are now..which is simply to be mostly in a position to book..AND PAY.. for any band on the circuit. They are in the position to pick and choose the bands that will draw and therefore perpetuate the whole process with a degree of certainty. If any bands offer to play these places for free, they'd get laughed at..the standard is higher and you need to convince you are worth booking...but by the same token, the venue isn't going to even look at you if you haven't got a decent pitch and everything else to comvince him you'll sell 200 plus pints..at least..!! I understand pubs/venues putting down their fees..or trying to... but no punter should mind 30p a pint going on for music nights. You get what you pay for... and that extra can keep the standard and fees up, hopefully. I am against more music venues if it waters down the whole set-up..ditto cheap licensing. I think there are too many bands already chasing gigs and too many of those forces some of them to desperately seek gigs via any method..including playing for free. They should make PLI and PAT compulsory and also a mimimum electrical standard for venues..not make it easier to bypass these useful requirements. Or, ban all bands who can't read from playing unless they pass their pratical [/quote] Good post - apart from your last statement because if every band had to read there would be a lot of good bands round here who wouldn't be able to gig! [quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1349720217' post='1829628'] We sometimes play for a grand plus , we also play for £80. That's at a tiny bar that can barely squeeze us and 40 people in and it's all they can afford. After petrol money that's maybe a 20 spot a piece. None of us are short of a 20 spot. We do it because we love playing there and the punters and management love having us. Accepting money has nothing to do with 'greed'. Suppose I broke a bass string that night , Mart punctured a drum skin and Rodders guitar lead went tonto. That would effectively be pay to play for us. Another venue we play - we take a lesser fee than we might because they let us have practise space. There are many ways to be 'paid'. We live in a world that primarily values our skills and products by giving us money or by trading services and products. Our precious , precious time has a value far beyond any amount of cash , but it does at least recognise that we give of our time and skills. Don't anyone ever sell yourself short. [/quote] Spot on again....!