peteb

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1365775840' post='2044361'] There's very good reasons for both approaches to exist. When I'm mixing multi-band gigs where I don't know the bassist and the backline, I'll default to using a DI box and take the signal before the amp unless the player requests otherwise. For me as an engineer, that means I know that even if the amp is crap, unreliable, gets its settings fiddled with by less educated people sharing rigs or whatever, I've got a consistent and reliable signal coming to FOH anyway. If (for example) somebody like BRX rolled up who obviously knew his rig and his tones and had a setup that lent itself to me taking a post processing signal I'd be more than obliging - it only takes seconds to pull an XLR out of a DI box and throw it into somebody's rack/pedalboard/whatever. I think you'll find that most FOH guys would love to work with a band to create the perfect FOH mix but the realities of gigging rarely allow for that luxury. The quality of their work is their calling card just as your performance is for you and they'll be looking for the best mix they can achieve given the time and resources available to them. Sometimes that means compromises have to be made somewhere, but with a bit of communication everybody can have their input and end up (reasonably) happy! [/quote] Good post! As much as I prefer to send a post signal I can understand why sometimes it makes sense to take a DI straight from the bass on multi-band bills with little turnaround time between sets. Good engineers can generally work with the bass player to get the sound that they want if there is a little time available and both parties know what they are doing! I wish that all sound engineers had your attitude...

Jon Shuker

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1365691808' post='2043023'] [i]I think this is pretty interesting, and of course its not just musicians that are guilty of such things, certain brands seem to be "Holy" especially Harley Davidson, who make some very old fashioned agricultural machines, but with a massive loyal fan base, guess we pay extra for how certain things make us feel, which may be foolish, but hey it happens. other brand like Jack Daniels and Ferrari also inspire such feelings, weird init. [/i] [/quote] I think that the comparison between Fender and Harley Davidson is a particularly interesting one - both make rather outdated machines that have a loyal following mainly based on their historical significance! However, I can see the attraction of always owning at least one US Fender. Unfortunately there are always band leaders around (and punters of course) who need the comfort of the Fender badge! It's not in anyway logical, but that's how it goes...

Has anyone noticed that a lot of bass players who do club type tours (or play a lot in Europe, etc) often have a preamp / DI on their pedal board?? I assume that this is to maintain a certain amount of control over their sound when they're using unfamiliar rigs or dealing with engineers who want to DI straight from the bass!

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1365437184' post='2039619'] Or it could mean they know a bit about sound and know that their system will make a better sound than the treble and bass controls on a bass amp. Some engineers receive such a ridiculously scooped sound from bass players' amps that there's nothing they can do to make the bass heard apart from elevating the level of stodge. Generic sounds? Now there's a can of worms best avoided by taking some time with said sound engineer and letting him know what you want. Good ones listen and know exactIy what to do. I get cross at the keyboards, bass guitar, kick drum and bottom strings on the guitar all muddying up the same bottom end frequencies as they are eq'd in isolation for impressive sounds. I have stopped playing once at this (in a church too!) as it was pointless carrying on making the sounds worse. Ok, off soap box. [/quote] When it comes down to it, bands have to take responsibility and make sure that they make life easier for the sound engineer to get the FOH sound right. If you have cr@p gear or can't EQ an amp, it's no wonder that they want a pre signal! However, there are a lot of them out there that couldn't mix concrete, yet alone a band in a less than ideal room. A mate of mine is a good pro sound engineer who runs a company that employs even better engineers. He says that if a band can get a good sound on stage then the engineer should be a able to reproduce that sound out front! He has a very jaundiced view of a lot of guys working quite big gigs, basically saying that many are incompetent. I have say that my own experience confirms this to a degree, not to mention (sometimes half decent) engineers who seem to think that the most important person on the show is them and seem to forget that it is about punters coming to see and hear a band...!

Post for me where possible! I want the engineer to have a reference for how I want the bass to sound out front. If you have a decent amp with a good DI and know how to use your EQ then a decent engineer should be able to reproduce that sound. If a soundman insists on using a pre signal I won't throw any toys out of the pram, but it is generally a bad sign. Usually it means that they are lazy (will give you a generic sound like they did the last guy), arrogant (want to let you know that they can get a better sound than you) or just a bit rubbish! IME there are a lot of cr@p sound engineers out there, even in decent venues or using good PAs. Good ones definitely do need looking after...

[quote name='chasblaisdell' timestamp='1365017606' post='2034262'] Juke joints generated alot of music in the 50's that inspired alot of Englishmen to play lousy blues in the 60's . a .38 in your bass case and a roadie with a shotgun watching your équipment van is inspiring , put's an edge on it . A white guy from London would have the time of his life and probably never play better . [/quote] I take your point, as you say, puts a bit of an edge on a performance! I have played blues gigs in Cumbria, which perhaps gives an insight to what you are talking about…!! Threats of violence aside, ZZ cranked up in a juke joint sounds like a good night out to me…

Being & looking comfortable onstage is the main thing. Having a few stage moves doesn't hurt but the main thing is confidence & looking like you belong on a stage is the main thing! Cultivating a bit of an image is good as well but it doesn’t have to be over the top (especially when you’re playing in the corner of a pub)! I’m not too keen on bands wearing uniforms or who have a ‘dress code’ – I can’t enjoy them for fear that any minute they will break into Mustang Sally, a medley of Motown hits or other such ‘family entertainment’…!

Clown Whores... the lot of you...!

[quote name='tonybassplayer' timestamp='1364854156' post='2031915'] Hi Peteb Heard so much about Italian Tony and met him once but never saw him play however from the comments on facebook from all the local bands etc he was much loved and respected as a bassist and sound engineer. The headstone is a fabulous tribute to a guy who obviously influenced many people. What band are you in Pete ? I used to be in Empress until last year Tony [/quote] I'm in a blues band called Rhythm Zoo at the moment, but it's not locally based (thru the new guitarist Phil Dean comes from Harrogate) and we play up and down the country. I've been in loads of local bands but of the recent ones I suppose that I'm best known for are Spank The Monkey and playing in Paddy Maguire's band a couple of years ago... Tony was quite a character - born in Italy but came over here in his twenties, great slap player but usually played in hard rock bands. I knew him from when he was in my mate's band PLC (now Motus). Makes you think of your own mortality when a mate who is not much older than you gets ill and passes away!

Six months ago Italian Tony, a bass player and sound engineer quite well known around Leeds and surrounding areas, left the building after a yearlong fight against cancer. A few of his mates held a couple of benefit gigs and chipped in to raise money for this gravestone. Hopefully a fitting tribute to a great bass player, colourful character and all round good guy…

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1364808279' post='2030992'] And IMO there's nothing wrong with Newcastle. We play to our most enthusiastic audiences there! [/quote] Nothing wrong with Newcastle at all - always a good 'lively' night out and some of the best audiences in the UK...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364806136' post='2030954'] Oh, dear me. I thought he was talking about Denmark. Where in the UK are you? [/quote] If you were asking me, I'm based in West Yorkshire. I know that the OP is in Denmark, the point I was trying to make that mainland Europe seems to be better for live music these days compared to the UK. I'm guessing that the OP likes his blues rock, which seems to be pretty big in Holland judging by the number of gigs that UK based bands of that ilk seem to do over there!

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364805280' post='2030940'] Fair point, but to be honest I think you've done well to escape a place where '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The average Joe wants to find a chick , cut a rug , brawl and get laid with the Stones and ZZ Top covers cranked.' [/font][/color] [/quote] Christ, you're in Newcastle - that seems a pretty good description of a night on the toon with perhaps a slightly different soundtrack!!

Don't expect the UK music scene to be as vibrant as the US. Still quite a lot of pub gigs but many places put bands on that really shouldn't. Indie pop rock and classic rock usually in the pubs with other places for other niche markets. Average UK Joe will tend to go to a club and listen to dance music whilst out on the pull, but plenty still prefer rock music of one sort or another! There is a UK blues scene but it is based around festivals and small clubs dotted around the country. Bear in mind this is 'in my experience' and mainly based on the north of England - it will be different in other parts of the country! My impression that there is a very good live music scene in Holland and that it is better in much of mainland Europe...

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1364601519' post='2028852'] I totally agree about the insecurity bit, that's probably why I spend most of my waking life either practicing some element of my playing, or revising my theory. The ego bit is a load of twaddle, I most certainly do not have an ego the size of a small planet. I'm a student at music college in London, and I guess the insecurity bit is true of a lot of the guys there, but few have any sort of ego. They and myself just have the desire to be the best and most creative musician that we can be. I actual believe that ego gets in the way of that. [/quote] I have never known any musician who is any good who hasn't got a healthy ego! That is not so that they are all prima donnas, far from it, but it is the ego that drives you to be the 'best and most creative musician' that you can be. You may be surrounded by a class of practising Zen Bhudist musicians, but that is not my experience...

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1364582499' post='2028544'] This thread should be retitled "justify why you are in a covers band" [/quote] That's exactly what this thread is about, but why?? I'm mot in a covers band at the moment. I'm playing in a band doing originals and standards to a niche market up and down the country. It's great but we only play about 20 gigs a year and I'm lucky if we break even! I'm in be process of putting a local covers band together with some mates just to have some fun and make a bit of beer / holiday money...!

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1364327536' post='2024992'] we don't slavishly copy an original note for note. What would be the point in that? [/quote] Because you can learn a lot by learning exactly how a great song (or bassline) is put together! Also, it can be great fun...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364496562' post='2027364'] He believes we were brought to this earth billions of years ago by the leader of The Galactic Confederacy, so I'd dispute you there. [/quote] Well there is that of course... To be fair, you could drive a bus thru any religious belief - doesn't stop plenty of good and otherwise intelligent people having faith...

Billy Sheehan talking about writing original material, playing in a covers band and becoming a better bass player (first 3 minutes of the video) - very relevant to this thread: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yglAuOceEPo[/media] As ever. Billy is bang on the money...

This is pretty cool [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FHXNN7daO4&playnext=1&list=PLFC461BC88FEC7BE0&feature=results_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FHXNN7daO4&playnext=1&list=PLFC461BC88FEC7BE0&feature=results_video[/url] Or a more conventional ensemble piece [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zhpF8wOARc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zhpF8wOARc[/url]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1363968110' post='2020321'] yep, agree... and he was the one that Cowell kicked off his boot camp. Tells you all you need to know about that little racket. [/quote] Surely you are not suggesting that they get rid of anyone who is too talented and may detract attention from the judges??

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1364343711' post='2025321'] Questioning one's self is a part of being an artist. Growth is a matter of addressing the flaws but not letting them overcome you. As far as the final outcome, that is perspective and that's always in flux. [/quote] This... To be a good musician you need an ego the size of a small planet to drive you to be as good as you can be, yet you are inevitably led to doubt whether you are as good as you would like to think you are! I'm afraid that insecurity is the natural state for any artist or musician, which is why we get so affected by criticism or indeed praise...

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1364341119' post='2025281'] Also - Bass Central will negotiate heavily on price. Don't believe their list prices! [/quote] That is useful to know!

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1364176376' post='2022884'] Submission No1 Zappa's Zoot Allures, the massively neglected Scott Thunes on bass. He deserves study, a real romantic bassist, his note choices are beautiful, his phrasing, his timing ... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUhRBq8UiL0[/media] [/quote] [color=#222222]That brings back memories![/color] [color=#222222]I believe that is from the 'Does Humour Belong In Music' video - I used to have it on VHS but it disappeared several house moves, not to mention several years ago. It was often the essential viewing on many nights when we got back from the pub[/color][color=#222222]...[/color] [color=#222222]Scott Thunes is undoubtedly a very good bass player, but that's a given for anyone in Zappa's band - Chad Wackerman is hardly a slouch on drums either! [/color] [color=#222222]Personally, I don't see Thunes as a phenomenal talent like Steve Vai or Terry Bozzio, to use obvious examples of Zappa alumni. I think that possibly some people see his rather challenging personality as some sign of unrecognised genius, whereas many who actually played him regarded him as a bit of a sociopath who was the reason for the demise of one of the greatest bands ever![/color]