VTypeV4

[quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1385677661' post='2291162'] Cheers for that bud, any chance of examples of high and low EBP drivers or Fs figures that would demonstrate it. Thanks again. [/quote] The old Precision Devices PD1850 is a good example of a high EBP driver. These were (still are?) commonly used in heavy bass applications and work particularly well in folded horns where the acoustic loading on the driver can be heavy. FS: 30Hz and Qes: 0.22 = an EBP of 136. Whereras the Eminence has a much lower EBP designed to work in a vented enclosure. It has a lower motor strength too. FS: 27 and Qes: 0.33 = an EBP of 84.

[quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1385675824' post='2291126'] EBP ? [/quote] Efficiency Bandwidth Product which is defined as Fs (free air resonace freq) divided by Qes (electrical Q)

I've gigged with between 60 and 800 watts with a dinky 210 to 810s to multiway bi-amp setps with 10s, 15s and 18s etc.. So as previously suggested, how long is a peice of string.. All of the above +1.. Currently happy with 60-300w with various cabs.

2 x eight ohm cabs wired parallel will give you a total load of four ohms so you get more power out of your amp and the bonus of greater cone area / displacement. ie it will be louder with two cabs than either a 4 or 8 ohm cab by itself. Doubling the watts into a given speaker will only yield an extra 3dB in theory. In practice losses through power compression and other factors will reduce this further.

Sorry to go against the grain but I have long used Crown amplifiers with little drama.. Not that I have anything against QSC of course, just a preference based on my experience of Crowns..

+1 on mains & HT fuses! I used to carry a spare 12AX7 around when using the Trace V4 but I rarely took any big bottles. I had that amp throw a few wobblies during shows. Every other has been (touch wood) sweet with no dramas whatsoever.

Sound City used to do the 'Energizer 120' which was a 120w power amplifier. 6 x EL34 and will work at 4, 8 or 16 ohm plus 100v line. Very powerful amplifier, used to use one for synthesizer. Reasonably narrow although probably not quite 19" and I'd be lying if I said it was lightweight.. Thunderous when worked hard tho!

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1385049234' post='2283858'] [size=4]Well, they would have sounded different, and as that is how we would have first heard it we would probably have thought it sounded great. All I'm saying is that perceptions depend very much on what you're used to, and what you heard first. [/size][size=4]Same sort of thing with Vinyl and CD: If CD had come first would anyone be singing the praises of vinyl, with its poor fidelity and [/size][size=4]susceptibility[/size][size=4] to damage? [/size] [size=4]The all valve Amps I have played through and heard generally sound great, but to me it is [i][b]like having a built in effect [/b][/i]that you can't bypass. [/size] [/quote] I'd never considered it like that, nice thought..

Thanks for the compliment but it's only like you and your valve amps, Mikey.. I'd love to be able to contemplate a project like yours but just don't have the experience or electronics knowledge. I get the theory but putting that into practice is beyond me! I have many years experience as a live engineer. I've been lucky to use both decent and shoddy kit but for the most part, people (band members, venue owners, tour managers etc) don't care as long as the result is achieved so knowing the kit and hearing what you intend to achieve before it happens becomes second nature. It's not always possible if the system is half blown up or massively under-powered but on the most part it is possibe. Sorry if this is a thread-jack!

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1384807847' post='2281023'] Ah! I thought they just kind of didn't bother with much EQ, comp, gates etc... Makes sense now! [/quote] Ha,no no.. The bass gets as much attention (from me at least) as everything else because if it doesn't fit, the mix is wrecked. Sometimes making the Bass and the Kick drum sit together is tricky but the sonic integrity of the entire mix is pinned on that combination. EQ is applied where needed usually to accentuate the strength or attenuate the weakness of a given sound. Normally a couple of dB at the appropriate frequency (ies) sorts issues. Hi-pass filter again depends on the situation as does EQ generally. Sometimes it's spot on straight out of the tin Compression is again only applied if needed. More percussive sounds tend require a little more 'squashing' with reduced thresholds and attack times with higher ratios. Older-school sounds sometimes just need a little 'tightening' using slower attack times, a softer knee and lower ratios. Sometimes it's not needed at all with enough dynamic range to look after itself. I don't normally need to gate the bass as if it's excessively noisy or unstable for any reason, there's usually a problem elseswhere such as a groundloop or the DI out has a poor Signal / Noise ratio. It's all about making it fit together and I find the great bands I deal with get that. And the not so good? Well they simply don't! Every good sound engineer should consider all of these things (and more) when mixing the bass in any group as most are greater than the sum of their parts, a synergy so to speak. The bass player is nearly always the 'binding agent and multiplier' IMO.

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1384797107' post='2280837'] This all takes time and I think in the end people just go with the DI because it's much simpler. Plug in, [i][b]'Play a bit of bass mate' (10 seconds later) 'Alright, thanks man, all done' [/b][/i]That's the typical sound check I have.. But I agree with what BigRedX said but I just go with the flow for everything [/quote] Because after listening to the kick drum and assessing the guitar noise, a decent engineer should have an idea where the bass soonically fits into that mix. As a bass playing sound engineer, I'm always on the bassists side a long as he's behaving of course..

My suggestion would be to go try as many as you can. You'll get a feel for different companies nuances in the pre-amp stage and break-up modes when pushed into the red.. If poss, try it with your speakers or ones you're familiar with so you can hear what the amp is doing rather than the combination. I'm still very happy with my Twin Valve combo and at this point (fingers crossed for next time I use it!) it's been very reliable so maybe you could revisit that route? The Ashdown CTM amps seem to get a good review too although I've never tried one myself. Valve watts are often percieved to be louder than their solid state counterparts (even though it's all the same) so don't dismiss a lower powered amplifier in the 50-100w bracket. Many folks on here happily gig the little Ashdown 30w watt head with a decent cab to great effect. I have gigged with a 60w valve amplifier on a number of occasions including a ten-peice soul outfit. Hope that helps.

Even with a simple passive High Pass Filter, speakers can be protected from over-excursion (farting out) and help them soound 'tighter'. DSP can help take the concept further by having the facilities to change how steep the slope of the cutoff (usually measured in dB per Octave with 12,18 and 24 dB/Oct being common) filter acts. Secondly, the ability to change the frequency at which the filter starts (-3dB) can be advantageous as different cabs / driver combinations will have higher or lower requirements to protect the speaker. Other things mentioned such as EQ and compression curves can help most speakers sound tighter or play louder. With Horn loaded cabs a HPF, EQ and Compression are all essential to keep the speaker working within it's optimum range usually dictated by it's maximum linear displacement or Xmax. Hope that helps..

As stated previously, in a live situiation I'd simply go with a quality DI rather than the fuss of mic on speakers. Exceptions may well be sounds like Lemmy and Alan Davey. I deal with the latter on a regular basis and have found my trusty '57s work just fine. The SM57 is [i]still [/i]a great microphone inspite of it's age and lineage. Recording may well be a different story where you have time and space to experiment working with alternative setups.

MESA / Boogie started by turbo-charging little Fenders in a shoddy shed at the foot of Randall Smith's garden.. Kitchen top sounds up-market to me!

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1384446788' post='2276843'] It seems to me there is room in the UK market for another high end amplifier manufacturer. [/quote] Better get building then! Ha. Can't wait to see your beast built, Mikey.

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/BeavisW2_zpsa0418bce.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisW2_zpsa0418bce.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/BeavisW1_zps11f6781e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/BeavisW1_zps11f6781e.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Just for giggles..

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1384084578' post='2272504'] I think Warwick basses do vary an awful lot. The ones I have had so far have been from 1984, 1988, 1990 x 2, 2000 and 2006. My least favourite was actually the 2000, which from what you have said is about the age of yours, but yours could be cracking! My favourites are the two 90's (the red streamer as above and a Thumb NT, which I regretfully moved on). The new ones have slimmer necks again and the 2013 models return to Wenge so would really love to try one of those. [/quote] Interesting insight, thanks for that.. I've played a few others although not sure about their year of build. One was a 4 string Stage one but was a bit of a freak as it had a maple neck as opposed the usual ovangkol / wenge. It sounded a bit 'lighter' and dare I say it, a bit more Fender than Warwick. Great looking and playing tho. The same chap used to have (may still?) a bolt on thumb and that was pretty cool offering the more traditional Warwick sound. I struggle withe ergonomics of the thumbs tho, it always feels like they're 'too far over' if you catch my drift. Another chap used to have an all singing all dancing 5 string thumb with the thru-neck and stripes, bright blue simms LEDs, turbocharged bartolini pre-amp and pickups etc. Great bass but he struggled with the ergonomics too. Of all that I've played, I still feel really lucky that mine has the closest embodiment of what I percieve to be the 'Warwick' sound. The thing growls and barks just the way I like.

They've made some stunning basses over the years.. Mine is coming up to 13 years old now so I guess it's not yet considered a 'vintage' one but I'd like to compare it to a new one and see the difference. And I mean a proper 'Made in Germany' example, not the lower priced ones. Not that I've anything against them, my RockBass was an excellent instrument..

I do think they're a massively underrated bit of kit both in terms of sonic integrity and also ease of use. Glad your 328s are still going Crez, may they live long!

Well nearly six months down the line and it's still all smiles in the Soundcaft camp. Overview: Having done around 120 shows on the desk since it's purchase I thought i'd let everyone know how i'd been getting on with it. It's worked faultlessly and without drama which has pretty much been as I'd hoped, no crashes or mid-set resets. I've done gigs both at the Rigger and also with my own system on a couple of external gigs. The music types have been varied from blues, through classic rock, modern metal all the way to folk and cajun types with a number of acoustic singer / song-writer types. It seems to happily handle it all with enough features to get the production just where i need it. Sound Quality: It's a great sounding desk. Whether it was analogue or digital, it's a truly great sounding bit of kit. It posesses that super smooth 'modern Soundcraft' sound which I would say is at least on a par with something like a GB8 or above. Scine the Rigger re-opened, I've been doing shows back on the old A&H GL3000 whilst we iron any faults without any added complication. I was quite surprised at how 'stiff' the GL sounded, the low end was still warm but it seemed to have a bit more 'honk' in the 1Khz region whilst the top end felt almost brittle. A real eye opener to be honest as I've always thought the GL to be a great sounding desk. Ease of use: Having used it most days since purchase, I'm finding it really very easy to get round at speed. To be fair, I don't think I'll ever get round it as fast as an analogue board but things have become pretty much 2nd nature without me having to scratch my head. Auxes have two ways of being accessed which is really handy if you're dealing with 1 person / 1 wedge. I can either select the channel (guitar for example) and have the options of sending to Aux 1-4 and the two FX units -or- Select the Aux 1 bank then have the option send every channel (if desired) to Aux one. I can then repaet 2, 3, 4 etc. Access to the dynamics and manipulation of is easy, straight forward and simple. It's all layed out in front of you in two button presses. 1: puts the current state of the dynamics onto the channel meters (gain reduction and gate open / closed) 2: puts the controls onto the 'E-strip' which is the row of horizontal knobs. Pressing 'dynamics' near the DRO shows the control you're manipulating visually for even greater control. EQ is not quite the usual affair but simple enough to use anyways. It's of 3 band fully parametric design with bell filters on each band but the LF and HF can also be used as a varied frequency shelving filters if thats desired. Each channel has 100 Hz HPF so you don't need to waste a band of EQ using it as low-cut. It's sort of more flexible than the four band EQ on the GL. Changing the parameters of the FX is quite intuitive also although remembering to press the right button when saving the patch name is important as it will name it as 'FX patch 3 ' or whatever rather than what you just spent 10 minutes dialling in. Same with the mix / snapshot saves too! In the master section, things (such as channels, groups etc) can be queried and the desk will show you the routing or assignment which can be handy if you think things have been routed wrong. Very handy as a quick visual reference. FX and Dynamics: Just as good as my big rack of external gear (almost!) To be fair, the gates and compression have a certain 'flavour' to them, almost a bit DBX which suits me fine as I've used many a 166 and 266XL. They're more effective and better sounding than my Behringer gates and comps not to mention the extra parameters make detail tweaks all the better. The 2 internal Lexicon FX are a distinct improvement over my old Yamaha SPX units but not quite as clever as my TC M1. The only thing that I do miss is a tap delay facility but it does offer a multi-layered delay which is pretty 'big sounding'. I've had time to program some of 'my' patches into the FX now and I managed to build them quite quickly but more importantly managed get them sounding right usually first go. Overall, both facilties work very well, especially when it's considered they're internal and on every channel. Quirks: It does do the odd thing that bugs me but they don't distract from what a great bit of kit it is. 1: When a channel is muted, it doesn't mute the auxes so sometimes when I need to mute both, it's a page change to mute the aux too. 2: I'll pre-face this by saying that it's something I need to get used to, it's not the desks fault. It works using dBFS scaling so I've found '0dB' to actually to be around -10dBFS. On the panel it states 0dBFS = +18dBu but there's no way -18 is 0 on this desk. 3: All master controls don't exceed 0dB. I've seen this before on older Spirit desks and it's not too much of an issue, just wished the master L/R fader and all groups ran to +10 like most other things. Not that I usually use past plus five but to me limited to 0 just bugs me a touch. 4: Lack of extrenal analogue outputs. I have LR, Aux 1-4 and a couple of headphone and control room outs but thats about it. All group outs, direct outs and indeed pretty much any other out is digital which is great for linking into the computer but limits connectivity to other devices. Conclusion: It's brilliant, reasonably simple, very effective and sounds great all in one neat box. My business partner is so impressed he's pick up an original 328 to do his gigs on. I don't think he's quite up to speed with it yet but much like mine, it's pretty quick and easy to pick up. Hope this helps anyone considering one. This is a slightly edited version of a review I put on BFMs forum so it's slightly out of date but most of what I said still applies. Having gone a bit further in depth with the desk over the last few months, I feel the following is worthy of mentions: It's nice to be able put dynamics on groups, particularly separating main vocals / backing onto different groups and using slightly different compression curves on each to give them their own space. To be fair, I don't often use this and found it not to be quite as effective as individual channels dynamics but it was interesting to try it as an exercise. I find it works best with 'lighter' sounding musicians. Using -10dBFS has become second nature and using '0' on the A & H almost seemed wierd! It's very handy to have the knobs do whatever you're 'not' doing. I appreciate that sounds like a contradiction but let me be clear. The faders have four functions accessed by the square buttons on the left side of the desk. One does channels 1-16, the second does 17-32 and the last brings in the master section with groups and aux masters. With nothing selected the unit becomes a MIDI control surface. When on the master section for example with nothing (channels) selected, the knobs on the 'E-strip' become the 'faders' on channels 1-16 (or 17-32 if selected) so if needed whilst making changes on the master section, you can still mix your channels. Genius! I've had chance to properly setup my FX now and I'm really happy with where they're at.They're now better than I had out of the SPXs and on par with the TC but I just don't quite have the flexibility it offers. Damn good for inside a ten year old desk! [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/RigCraft2_zps99d7b7db.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/RigCraft2_zps99d7b7db.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Bit of a ropey pic pre-refurb..

+1 on Crown. I haven't used one for bass as I love valve output stages but for all my pro-audio stuff, I always swear by a Crown.

I've spotted 'em on ebay at £24.95 a pop.. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12AX7-ECC83-Rocket-Tube-Preamp-Valve-NITROUS-GRADE-Higher-gain-Guitar-or-Hi-Fi-/231076387104?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item35cd39d920#ht_1592wt_958"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12AX7-ECC83-Rocket-Tube-Preamp-Valve-NITROUS-GRADE-Higher-gain-Guitar-or-Hi-Fi-/231076387104?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item35cd39d920#ht_1592wt_958[/url] Not sure I'd be willing to throw that much money at 1 pre-amp valve. I recently bought a quad of Shuguang EL84s for my Leak for the same monies. And inspite the stigma of 'Made in China', they're great sounding. These may well be from the same factory..

Lovely V6!