VTypeV4

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of tone deaf and incapable fools out there and that coupled with a poor attitude, you're onto a loser. I too have been on the recieving end of this and fully appreciate the frustrations associated with it. Personally, I'll take a DI most of the time because I can make it work with everything else. Occasionally a mic will work (as well or instead), especially with sounds like Alan Davey but what it comes down to is appropriate use of EQ and compression -where needed- making the bass sit where it should (and it's not the same in every group / mix) irrespective of whether the source is a flat DI, an affected post-eq DI, a dynamicmic or a combination of all three. And never have I refused to plug someones bass in for fear of it 'blowing my system up' as it is appropriatley setup. I choose a DI nearly every time because it's what works best most of the time on my stage with my system in my room. Nothing to do with laziness, prejudice or whatever, I always do my best to achive the best result possible for everyone equally including the bass player. I would like to think 99% of the people that I've mixed would be happy with the result I helped them achieve and if they're not, I'm happy for them to speak up as I take my work and professional pride very seriously. Using a POD, Sansamp or whatever isn't a problem on my watch, we did Clawfinger about ten years ago and they used POD's exclusively for both bass and guitar and it was truly monsterous.

I hate threads like this and as such don't normally contribute but there's been some utter nonsense posted with regards to bass guitar, it's sonic space and the capability of modern sound systems... Modern sound systems (line-array setups) are designed for the best dispersion accross a large area. There's no 'gaps' in their frequency response (causing a lack of punch(!)) or indeed any 'fashion' issues going on, certainly not in my experience at least. They are the pinnacle of design and when correctly setup, work beautifully. Sound in smaller venues (such as the place I mainly work) can be an issue but thats more likely caused by an issue on stage or an inherrant problem with the room itself. The system I use has horn-loaded 18" subs and bi-amped tops with a 15" direct radiator and a 2" compression driver on a horn. 98 times out of 100, the bass sounds just like it should, the other few times are made up with incompatible and/or un-useable sounds. The old 'I couldn't hear the bass' thing usually stems from 'the bass doesn't sound like or isn't as loud as I percieve it should be' or by young johnny's dad saying he couldn't hear his lad. Never mind the rest of the group, eh.. We're all bass players on this forum covering all styles, shapes and sizes but so many complain about this subject, it really gets my goat. I've been a pro engineer for nearly 15 years and a bass player for 18 and I've both played and mixed up and down the country for all sorts. I've met and dealt with a number of jackasses from both sides but with decent communication a decent result is achievable as long as whoever you're dealing with has a clue.. Some engineers are poor at their job, can't listen or simply don't understand but we're not all like that. A comment on previous page about 'you're sticking a mic on this' would go down like lead balloon with me (and most engineers -good and bad- that I know) because it's not always the best option. Does the musicain know and understand the room? Do they know what the system is capable of? Do they know how to mix their own group? Probably a 'no' on all counts so being so arrogant as to assume they know best simply shows the short sightedness of some and the root of many problem. I shouldn't comment on threads such as this because all it does is make me mad at some of the bad / wrong knowledge out there but the 'bash the engineer' thing feels like it becomes personal as so many think we're all clueless muppets with a stinking attitude not even capable of mixing a bag of concrete. I'll gladly help anyone who wants to learn how to mix a group (or indeed a bass guitar) but I won't be told by a musicain how to do my job. If they know better, I'll zero the desk and system then they can mix the whole thing their way. Thankfully it's never got that far. I'm signing off at that as I could go on and on but its 3am and my feathers are ruffled.. Indeed.

Sweet rig, very sweet indeed..

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/IMG_0048_zps67358dad.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/IMG_0048_zps67358dad.jpg[/IMG][/URL] All the gear roughly in place, you can just see the green screen of the MOTU in the top rack and the savvy may notice the use of the Soundcraft rather than the 02R. I had some teething trouble with the 02R that I've now resolved but it was just easier to use the XD as I was running out of time on Wednesday evening.

Post a pic if you can, it'd be nice to see how you have things set-up. Nothing wrong with most Soundcraft models, even the old Spirit range of Folio and Live4 series were good consoles. The first live job I ever did back in 2000 was on a Folio SX. I'm not sure where all my gear is gonna fit as my sound booth at the Rigger isn't particularly big. There's just enough space for the Allen & Heath GL and the two racks so where the hell a computer, a monitor, a 328XD and/or the 02R, I have no idea! Ha! Its gonna be a trial run tomorrow so I'll see how it plays out.

As described in your post Flyfisher, it's how I'm approaching it.. Direct outs should be pre everything if poss so what goes to tape (or indeed a modern digtal medium!) is entirely unaffected by your live mix as what soundsd good FOH may not work on the recording. Also consider that you don't want to be chasing fader movements whilst trying to mix the recording, that'd be a nightmare! A healthy level in and to tape is important as it's often diffiicult or impractical to sort something thats either way too quiet or heavily clipped after the fact. What setup are you using? I used to use a Soundcraft GB8 when they were new about ten years ago..

Afte rmany years as a live engineer I considered that recording some of the events I mix might be good a experience as well as spinning a few extra pennies to boot. 1: I bought a decent computer (dual core intel) built by my friend. Mayber later I'll go to a Mac.. 2: I have a MOTU 828x MK3.. 3: I have a few digital desks knocking about and most recently I purchased a Yamaha 02R.. As software I'm using Pro Tools which seems to interface well with the MOTU and runs smoothly on the computer. It's simple to route inputs and outputs so I can mix either in the program or send back to the console and mix externally / return LR if needed which gives me plenty of options. All ins to the MOTU will be sent on ADAT (bank A 1-8 then bank B 9-16) although it has an extra 10 analogue inputs too. Outs can also be routed on the two ADAT banks so once the signal goes into the console, it stays digital so no noise etc. Both the Yamaha and Soundcraft desks work at a maximum of 48kHz / 24-bit so I'm using this as my standard although the MOTU will do more, up to 192kHz. Connection to the computer is done by USB 3.0 as I don't have Thunderbolt ports and apparently firewire may soon be a thing of the past. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0026_zpsnrrrcau6.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0026_zpsnrrrcau6.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I'll probably have to iron out some of the yet unknown gremlins in the setup and workout a 'system' which works best for me and yeilds the best results too. As it'll be largely a live recording setup, I expect my 328XD will be best for the 'in' as it's direct outs can set pre / post fade, pre / post EQ and pre / post dynamics. Short of an appropriately set input gain, the sends to the MOTU will be unaffected by my live mix. Gonna try it all on Wed!

Cheers gents.. Well I've got myself some recording kit too so the 02R will probably tie into that, less so for the FOH mix but I'm gonna learn my chops on it anyways. The 328XD is such a good desk for FOH, I'm loathe to change it anyways. I've too much gear and a lot of learning to do iin the near future so i'll keep this thread posted.. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0026_zpsnrrrcau6.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0026_zpsnrrrcau6.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

And I bought the Yamaha too, need time to learn it and get it configured before I use it under battle conditioons.. [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0024_zpsgyosp2j9.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0024_zpsgyosp2j9.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/DSC_0023_zpsocr6ecnf.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/DSC_0023_zpsocr6ecnf.jpg[/IMG][/URL] It's a version two with two ADAT cards, an AES/EBU card and a cascade card although the latter is moot as I'm the only person I know who has one. It's very clean but it's physically larger than expected - it dwarf my 328s - and weighs alot too. There's a common link with the style of operating system used on these with the LS9 which I'm reasonably familiar with so it's not totally foreign but I don't think it'll be anywhere near as quick as the Soundcrafts to navigate. It seems to be alot more complex than the 328s without lots more options.. Time will tell!

JBL quote (or used to at least) power compression specs for their components which I haven't seen from anyone else. They don't make bass guitar specific drivers or cabinets anymore however.. And for the O/P, 3dB (assuming both amplifiers are rated in the same way) isn't that noticeable..

Many thanks for the above.. My friend Matt is gooing to look a Mesa/ Boogie in Brum next week so I may well jump in with him..

I think the pre-amp might be (carbon copy or indeed re-worked) Trace Elliot V-Type. Or should I say 'borrowed' from Fender.. I'm aware of the links between the the 'old' Trace range and some of the Ashdown gear as such, the V-Type range always sounded great so surely it would be a waste of time for them to re-invent the wheel? This is mere speculation and I could be bang wrong but I'd love to try a CTM to find out.. Or maybe someone more knowledgable could chime in?

I do like these.. It's an itch that hasn't gone away! As a rule I don't particularly get on with the Ashdown but if these are what I think they are under the skin then I'm probably going to love them. Not sure if there's any local tho, Academy of Sound are my dealer and thats nearly all ABM and MAG models.. The 100w model would probably do me nicely..

I've had more Jazz Basses than I can shake a stick at. It was ten at the last count ranging from Squiers through to USA Deluxe models and to be fair, they were all great basses one way or another. I've just re-bought my old Squier VM Jazz as it was such a good example! And there-in lies the rub for me with all Fender instruments: Consistancy. I've played lots of lovely examples as well as some that were only fit for firewood irrespective of what origin or price tag was hung off them. It seems to be a Fender condition as most companies basses seem to be far more consistant -and don't get me wrong I know all of them make the odd dog- for example, I've never played a (what I percieved to be at least) bad Status which are in the same price range as the top line Fenders. Arguably it might be a bad setup or indeed my taste but I think there's more to it than that. I hope Fender don't go down the pan as Leo Fender and his designs are as legendary as the name. We all know the contribution they've to 'modern' music etc..

My TwinValve is the combo version. Compact, heavy but plenty loud enough to stand up to most situations. And it sounds great!

[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1415984615' post='2605872'] NOBD! New Old Bass Day [/quote] Indeed!

[URL=http://s778.photobucket.com/user/VTypeV4/media/JazzBassBitJam_zpsa5c28505.jpg.html][IMG]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/VTypeV4/JazzBassBitJam_zpsa5c28505.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I sold this a few years back and regretted it but I managed to buy it back. I'll collect Monday fresh for rehearsal! The pic is me using the bass before sale in '09 - ish.. Can't wait!

It sounds like you've got a BLX series model from the '90s. They did a number of models starting in around '89 with the Series 6 seven-band pre-amp and an 80 watt power stage (BLX 80 or 'The BLX') through to the SMC models coupled to the 150 watt board usually badged as BLX SMC. Some came with a high frequency component and some had their XLR DI omitted but the box and speaker were pretty much the same which ever model you have. The enclosure is a band-pass type box for an extended bass response but some criticised it's limited upper midrange and HF response. IMO it's low end isn't bad given the compact design and limited displacement drive unit. More modern drivers are capable of much more than the OE Celestion driver although I always thought it sounded ok and never really complained too much. The location of the driver at the back of the cube made the weight distribution difficult too although once you learn it's going to tip,you'llbe ok. I was lent a BLX130SM with HF unit when my old 712 went for repair many years back. It was a heavy little beast but offered a decent sound with plenty of authority and definition. The problem was it was only just loud enough against a drummer let alone guitars, keys etc. I appreciate 130w (90 - 100w @ 8 ohm internal speaker) will only go so far but it wasn't quite far enough. With an extention speaker it would probably have been much more comfortable without the need to thrash it so much. On reflection, I'm not so sure my 712 ever sounded quite as 'tight' as the BLX although it was perceivably louder.. Hope that helps a little and you're happy with the amp.

When mixing, I often compress the bass. Sometimes I feel the need to squash the bass a bit to help it fit whereas other times it happily sits just snug without. Occasionally it is needed to apply alot of compression if a bass sound lacks context, is borderline incompatible with everything else or is simply badly / sloppily played. At this point mentioning above, it becomes more objective than personal IME.. [quote name='ironside1966' timestamp='1415568418' post='2601600'] If you just want to keep the bass in the right place of the mix then it is best done FOH. [/quote] +1

I find compressor pedals a little lacking probably because alot of the settings are 'built in' so to speak.. I like to have control over all aspects of the compressor to best suit my requirements especially on a full range device. Attack and release, knee and make-up are commonly missed off pedals and we're simply left with a 'one knob does it all' or at best a threshold and ratio set. The old Trace SMX compressor pedal and the later Ashdown version work reasonably well to my taste but again, a lack of detailed controls limits fine tuning. Use of compression is very subjecive and somewhat personal. It also depends on what we want to achieve with it too as compression can be used as both a corrective and creative tool. Maybe we just want to smooth out peaks and troughs a little, maybe we're looking to squash the nuts out of some aggressive slap or possibly using it more like a limiter to eek a little more SPL out of and under-powered rig? All situations would require completely different settings and just like EQ, some would love it and others would hate it as a component in their sound. Neither of my amplifiers has compression built in but both being valve (particularly the Ashton) have a degree of natural valve compression. The Trace seems to do the 'transparent' thing whereas the Ashton does the 'squashy' thing. In a live situation both are more than adequate for my tastes but when recording I do prefer to add more by using a comprehensive (hardware or software) full range or multi-band compressor. Multi-band is great (two-band is perfect for me) as I can have completely different settings for each (low / high) frequency band allowing for a borderline invisibly compressed bass sound thats 'always present' in the mix without being squashed to death. I do have an old Boss LMB3 but the compressor on that was inadequate / intrusive and for a time I simply used it's enhance function. It sits largely dormant now although I do drag it out now and then just to remind myself that I don't really need it anymore. To the O/P, if you're happy running without then do so, if you're happy with what you're achieving and how it sits solo and in a mix then it's all good surely?

+1 on the above.. John is top drawer to deal with! We recently closed a deal on some vintage JBL speakers that he had knoocking around. Very pleased with all aspects of our deal. Many thanks to Tom (Bradwell) who helped to get them from down there to up here too!

Glad you're happy with it.. I always found with these and the V-Type models that my style of playing suited the input gain / pre-amp level to be around the 12 o'clock position. This will depend on how much EQ you use of course. With regards to the EQ -as you've already found- it's pretty flexible for a passive set. The controls are somewhat interactive and that includes the push buttons too. The deep button accents the lows by actually taking a cut out of the low mids, the mid shift seems to put a bit of a hump in around the 400 Hz mark helping with note definition in a noisy situation and bright does what it says on then tin* * Your mileage and experiences may vary from mine! Glad you're happy with your new amp, like I said, the one my ex had was very good. I think the occasional bad-rap that this type of amp gets is usually from being thrashed in a situation where it's massively out it's depth. When I used to play synth in a band, the bass player used to use the older 100w 12" version although the speaker eventually failed but it was the shoddy green-framed BG12S 100 Celestion. My 712 had one of these too but I spoke to Trace and they changed it under warranty when it started complaining for a 200w Q series unit that was far more robust. The TF / Tru-Vox series 15" unit in yours is a lovely sounding speaker for bass guitar, I never remember it complaining.

I had a similar issue with a 300SMX Trace which turned out to be a dry joint on the power-stage board. Does a short, sharp whack on the top resolve the issue? It did with the Trace, I later soldered it up..

Fascinating, as is the link about Class D operation.. Top thread chaps!

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1414968626' post='2595260'] That looks like a good TE pairing. [/quote] +1