Ed_S

This thread has prompted me to finally sort out the B string on my StingRay 5 which has been slightly floppy ever since tuning down half a step. The application of a new set of Power Slinkys seems to have done the trick! They're a bit hard on the finger ends at the moment as I'm used to 40-125 and have gone up to 50-135, but they feel much more responsive to play on and they sound absolutely great. Granted it's not a 'cheap' bass, but it's not a mega-expensive one either, has a normal scale length and can, with the right strings, have a very un-floppy B or even Bb.

[quote name='thegummy' timestamp='1470574750' post='3106796'] According to a lot of people, the Squier Classic Vibe 70s P-Bass is better and cheaper than the Fender standard P. That wouldn't surprise me if it's true, especially the pickups, because Squier CV guitars have better pickups than standard Fenders. It does have "Squier" on the headstock though which may or may not matter to you. [/quote] I've had both and unfortunately that wasn't my experience. The 70s CV was nice for the money, don't get me wrong, but it had a few small finish issues out of the box and the pickup was, to my ear at least, quite bland. Changed the pickup and gigged it for a while on those "I'd prefer not to take my best gear" gigs, but then after a while the fret ends started to lift and become noticeably sharp whilst playing so I moved it on to somebody who was happy to put the money into getting that sorted. I just couldn't do with the fuss and I had my eye on something else anyway. The MIMs (I had a pair, one W/W/M and one B/W/R) were great - they were solid, had no fit-and-finish issues and the pickups had some real grunt and grind to them, for want of more descriptive terms! Played some of my most memorable gigs on those basses and, if I'm honest, some days I kinda regret selling them.

[quote name='jrixn1' timestamp='1469198439' post='3096577'] Since it is the same product from the same company, is it fair to reason that if their "500W" is more like what you and I would call 250W, then the original "120W" was more like 60W? So the power in the new version has quadrupled. I'm also quite curious about these, and perhaps I am trying to convince myself to get one! [/quote] [url="http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/hartke-kickback-12-210427.jpg"]This[/url] page from the manual of the original one seems to suggest that it was 120W RMS into its built-in 8ohm speaker. I've gigged with a Hartke HA2000 and a GK MB200 in the past, both of which are 200W and did the job perfectly well, but usually with a decent 4ohm 4x10 or 2x12 so affording full power output and more speaker area. It's less the 250W rating that slightly puts me off getting a KB12, rather more the lack of ability to add another cab, especially when you perhaps didn't expect to need one but could have borrowed one at the venue.

I was quite excited to hear that they were being re-vamped with a 500W lightweight power section, but then I read the owners manual online and found out the 500W is peak (not RMS) and there's no inbuilt facility to add an extension cab, only unplug the internal speaker and use an alternative 4ohm cab - presumably because the internal speaker is 4ohm to match the minimum impedance of the amp. Of course, none of that is necessarily a problem if it performs really well as a standalone unit, but it curbed my enthusiasm somewhat.

The 801 wth a GEB7 in front of it is the exact setup I use at home when I'm not just going through a pod into studio monitors. It's a great little amp - sounds much bigger than the space it takes up and the eq pedal allows you to do a bit of fine-tuning.

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1464995969' post='3064607'] Mine arrived today. I'm a bit worried I've got a duff one as the drive knob does very little - it seems to act as a volume control until the very last turn of the knob when a heavy (and quite unpleasant) farty overdrive kicks in. Surely this isn't normal? [/quote] [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1465026888' post='3064707'] mines the same now you mention it [/quote] [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1465034142' post='3064780'] Mines pretty much the same, no drive at all until 3 o`clock, then if hit hard there`s a bit of drive. Anywhere onwards it`s a bit buzzy. But then this is home use, not tried it at band settings yet. [/quote] Mine's the same, but not just the drive - all the controls seem to work that way to a greater or lesser extent. [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1465067410' post='3065124'] Is the overall opinion tipping towards "disappointing" rather than "positive"? [/quote] I've been using my Sansamp BDDI for the last 9 years and I can't see me retiring it any time soon, but for twenty quid you can't really be too disappointed with the BDI21. It sounds alright and it'd get you out of a fix - errant beer doesn't distinguish between cheap and expensive pedals, after all! Personally I plan to keep it in the emergency spares box and offer its services to bassists from other bands who rock up to gigs expecting (misguidedly) to use my amp.

So if we say that at the point where any 1x12 just can't keep up because physics dictates that it will never do so, you will have suitable PA support and simply use whatever you have for monitoring - be that covering all or just some of the stage, it seems to come down to another classic 'any two of three': You can have your exact tone at any volume but it won't necessarily be in a convenient format. You can have your exact tone in a convenient format, but it won't necessarily reach the required volume. You can have enough volume to cover most bases in a convenient format, but it won't necessarily be your exact tone. I'm clearly just lucky that the convenient packages I use to produce enough volume give me tones I'm happy enough to call my own, but exact tone is where I'd make the compromise if I had to so it's moot point for me.

Whilst I wouldn't say that a 1x12 is all that I could [i]ever[/i] need, I've fast come to the conclusion that most situations I play in are generally self-limiting with regards the size of rig I need, and that a 1x12 is good for the vast majority. If it's a small pub the 1x12 does the whole job on its own, if it's a larger bar/venue then the 1x12 does on-stage monitoring and a bit of FoH along with the PA and if it's an even larger club then the 1x12 does on-stage monitoring and the house PA does its job as intended. If it's something non-standard that needs a PA to be taken along then you either hire one that can handle the room/space and use your 1x12 for monitoring, or you take your own and as soon as you're doing that it's probably fair to assume that you have transport for more than a 1x12 if the PA you own dictates that you need it. I genuinely don't think that I'm fooling myself into believing that I get a successful mix and a good sound; I play wireless and get out in the room during both soundcheck and sometimes even the gig itself, so I'm happy that what I'm hearing is what I (and my band as a whole) want to put out, and I've also had positive comments from sound engineers and other bands' bassists that go beyond the polite 'good set' etc. and actually make specific reference to the capability and suitability of my rig. Obviously the sound I want to achieve might not be the sound that every punter wants to hear, but that's the game; if we sound how we intend to and you don't like it then sadly you just don't like us - no hard feelings.

The two heavy amps that lightweight alternatives generally have to live up to for me are a Hartke HA5500 and a Peavey VB-2. Are they generally classed as 'hefty' amps?

Yeah, I don't think you'd ever have issues under normal circumstances - it'd just be if you tripped over and stamped on / dropped something heavy on one that I might expect a Boss type metal chassis to come off better. I have the grey tuner pedal too, bought as something to make a thomann order up to the point where you get free shipping I seem to recall. The tuner function never impressed me all that much (bit slow to track and not too clever on dropped tunings) but the blue LED on it is absolutely retina-searing! :-)

Not strictly a bass pedal, but I've heard of people using a stock Tube Screamer on bass so it's maybe worth mentioning that the TO800 Tube Overdrive is a very good clone. It's one of the plastic ones so I don't know how well it would stand up to regular live use, but tone-wise I actually sold the Ibanez TS808 reissue that I also owned at the time and kept the Behringer as it was every bit as good.

I didn't go looking for lightweight gear when I bought my first piece of it, but that's because I genuinely didn't know lightweight gear was 'a thing'. Since my first chance meeting with a Little Mark II and the realisation of just how much quite literal pain it could save me, it's become a choice with no significant element of compromise and it's formed part of every gear-buying decision I've made since.

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1463045395' post='3048001'] I am new to mine and, other than home practice, I have only used it for one rehearsal with one band. But even so I can compare how it performed to other amps/cabs/combos I have used in the same situation as, with that band, we always rehearse in the same room in the same studio. So the CMD121P with volume at 12 o'clock was loud enough for this one band in that rehearsal room but, as indicated above, it will probably run out of steam very soon. To get the same presence in the band from the Fender Rumble 500 I had briefly I had the master on around 11 o'clock. Using my Trace Elliot AH-300 into a Barefaced Supercompact I have the master vol on the TE set at 8 o'clock, with tons more available on tap. I may be wrong, but I feel I can then project that one direct comparison to how I need to set up the Trace Elliot/Supercompact at the various smallish venues I play with that band. Usually I turn up a little or leave it the same, so I think the CMD121P would cut it for those gigs - small pubs where 100 would be crowded. But I also know how much I need to turn up the volume for my other bands and I know that the CMD121P wouldn't be loud enough. For example, in my loud 'classic rock' covers band I need to have the Trace Elliot to 1 or 2 o'clock. I had to use the Rumble with the master pretty much on full but it started to object and was better with an extension cab. Which is very loud but has to be because the drummer doesn't do soft. That is even with PA support and just using it as stage monitor. I guess all this means that 'loudness' is a subjective thing right up until you start metering it, which would be a bit silly. [/quote] I think you're definitely right that it's all very subjective, but the fact that you're talking about it doing ok with a 100ish capacity venue is hanging about right what what I've experienced, though I seem to have been getting away with running a little less on the master volume, maybe due to size and shape of room/stage, which I suppose might have given me a distorted view of how much the combo has left to give; in itself a useful thing to bear in mind! As above, it's all still pointing to me potentially needing to take something bigger for backline-only gigs in bigger rooms, but on the back of this thread I might take the combo along to next rehearsal and see what it can actually do when you turn it up past noon. Cheers both for your thoughts - appreciated!

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1463042468' post='3047967'] I'm surprised you get heard clearly out front without PA with the master between 8-9 and input gain at 1. With PA, no problem. I bought that amp mostly as I generally only needed a stage monitor and it worked beautifully for that, and so easy to carry. But without PA... it sounds good on stage but get out in the floor (wireless) and you don't disappear entirely but there's no 'mass' to it at all. My experiences are largely with a ska(ish) band with a drummer, three guitarists/vocals, two trumpets and a sax. Lots of people but not necessarily very very loud. My EQ on that amp was generally flat (occasionally bumping/cutting something, a tiny bit), and filters off. In our music the bass is prominent and the little combo can't do it alone. I honestly cannot imagine any band except for quieter jazzy ones being able to pull it off. That speaker is pretty good, but it's a tiny enclosure (a great part of the combo is taken up by the amp, it's a lot smaller than the 'equal size' extension cabinet in fact)... I needed an extension cab if I had no PA support and we were not playing but the smallest rooms. [/quote] I guess that all kinda makes sense; the larger rooms tend to be the ones where we have PA support for the backline because the venue is expecting to need it, at which point the sound guy can add as much additional volume and bottom end as he sees fit without making me suffer it on stage, whereas the smaller rooms where the backline has to do its job and only vocals go through the PA are of a size that the amp can handle with just a bit of a push on the master volume, plus they usually have smaller stages so my rig is more than likely against a wall, which may help. I do usually play wireless and go walkabout in the room during soundcheck to make sure it's all coming through as we'd want, so I'm confident that on the smaller gigs I've not just been [i]hoping[/i] I was coming through So I suppose I'm looking out for 200ish+ capacity venues with weedy house PA systems as the warning sign that I might want to pack the Super 12 instead.

[quote name='The GroovyPlucker' timestamp='1462887123' post='3046638'] re the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Markbass CMD121P, I had one of these on it's own and I was drowned out by the drummer.[/font][/color] [/quote] [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1462974439' post='3047449'] That combo alone... you'll be pushing it. I had one and it's great but it would be a bit short for what you want without another cab. [/quote] [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1462981576' post='3047552'] ...I am in two other, rockier, bands with loud drummers and it wouldn't stand a chance on it's own. [/quote] Hopefully it's not too far off-topic to ask, but what kind of size venue and type of tone are you guys going for when finding the CMD121p so lacking on its own? Please don't think I'm doubting what you're saying, I'm just genuinely interested because I've been using mine on its own for a while now and haven't had it run out of steam on me yet. I have much larger and more powerful amps/cabs, but space is usually at a premium both in transport and on stage so I'd like to use the 121p solo as much as possible, but at the same time it'd be really useful to know at what point I might end up asking too much of it and could expect a refusal - after all, there's little more annoying than owning something that would have done the job but not having taken it with you! I play in a two-guitar melodic/power metal band at nothing-like-sedate volumes but I've never had a problem with hearing myself on stage or being heard out in the room. Of course, FoH PA support makes a difference out in the room when you've got it in larger venues, as does foldback on stage, but I've played the 121p with all permutations of those two variables and in general the EQ stays 'flat' (all at-or-very-near 12 o'clock and cut the lows if it's a boomy stage), the filters stay off, the gain stays at 1 o'clock and the master volume varies between 8 and 10 o'clock depending on the setup in the room. Tone also makes a difference and mine is generally clean with no thunderously low component, plus I only play 4 string basses in Eb with this band, but we tune down to C for some of the songs in the set and even that doesn't seem to cause me a problem. I have other Markbass gear and completely get what you're saying about the amp being pretty much maxed-out by the time you're at 12 o'clock on the master, but I've only ever been near there once and that was when I first got my LMII years ago and still had an old cab that just didn't have the sensitivity to make the necessary noise without the application of additional wattage. Cheers in anticipation of your thoughts

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1462822693' post='3046065'] Haha. They really are pretty good. I gigged mine extensively for a year there, including sone pretty big stages, and it never let me down. If it's run through decent cone area then 250 watts will be more than enough for the majority of situations. Perhaps a bit bland sounding, but I think that's just a markbass thing. [/quote] Never actually used the blackline, but have used LMII, LMIII, LM800 and F1 extensively and never found any of them wanting. The 250W at 4ohms being enough doesn't surprise me at all - I play most of my gigs these days with my CMD121p combo on its own and rarely go beyond 10-o'clock on the master.

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1462821956' post='3046053'] Totally just dingying my post? 😂😄 [/quote] Oh yeah, sorry :-) missed your post - I was just looking through the bargain bits at my local shop, noticed it and remembered this thread. But, great idea - I completely agree! ;-)

If you like MarkBass, this could be a reasonable start to a cheapish and lightweight rig.. http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/markbass_little_mark_250_blackline_bass_head-ymarkbass41318.asp

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1458693331' post='3010006'] At this price point there is lots of choice however, bigger and louder..... [/quote] Very true, though my thinking is that most beginners don't need a big combo or stack when they're starting out, but most gigging bassists who've been at it a while might benefit from owning a good quality practice and jamming amp that's small enough to put in a cupboard when not in use or carry in a holdall on the bus/tube/train, in addition to their stage rig, so personally I'd buy that as a first amp and keep it, rather than start out with something in the middle ground and end up having to get rid and buy something bigger for stage and something smaller for home practice and jamming round at your mate's house. Of course, that's exactly the opposite of what I did because the kit just wasn't there to buy when I started out, but it'd certainly be my advice to somebody starting out these days.

Not sure about where you'll find the best price, but I can attest to it being a great little amp. It's not just a practice amp either - I mean it's not going to compete with a loud band, but I've used mine alongside acoustic guitar, keyboards and two singers, all going through a PA for a bit of reinforcement, and it made a great little monitor; much louder than I expected. The only thing I'd say it might lack for some styles and occasions is EQ, but I've put a Boss GEB-7 pedal in front of mine a couple of times and it worked really well. Wish it'd been available to be my first amp, because it sure beats a Park B25mkII!

The loudest gig I've ever been to and not realised just how loud it was until I walked out half deaf (because it was engineered so well it didn't actually hurt) was Def Leppard at Sheffield Arena on the Slang tour in 1996. The loudest gig I've ever been to just for stupid, painful, unnecessary hearing damage was The Darkness' Carling Homecoming at the Astoria in 2003. The 'loudest performance on bass guitar' award, however, goes to Oliver Dawson Saxon at the Trades Club in Rotherham a couple of years ago - two Ampeg 8x10 rigs at full pelt in a room the size of a fairly standard pub was a practical education in how not to treat an audience. I left.

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1458074297' post='3004509'] That is VERY interesting... Anyone know if there are any of the pre-E RM800s still going cheap anywhere? [/quote] Definitely worth having a scout round - I picked one up in mint condition as an ex-demo clearance offer over the weekend because it looked like a bit of a bargain (and I remembered reading a certain 9/10 review on here) so they're potentially still out there.

I've used a P-bass through a Peavey VB-2 into a 4ohm Markbass 104HR which is pretty close, and that sounded great for hard rock / melodic metal. I've never played through the HF version, but I can't see it sounding bad just for being front ported and a little bit bigger.

Perhaps an LM800? I've always thought of it as being slightly more 'clinical' sounding than the LM2. Could be the difference in power amp design or maybe just the additional clean headroom from being a little more powerful, but there's certainly a difference and it may suit.

I played 5s exclusively for a long time, but I ended up trying one of the then-new Mexican 4 string Precisions that had just come out in 2009ish and it was a "have to buy it" moment. I took it along to a rehearsal as a bit of a joke (my main basses then were Vampyre and Warlock 5-strings so the white/white/maple P was something of an aesthetic change) but I ended up enjoying it so much that I've been predominantly in the 4-string camp ever since.