Ed_S

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1463042468' post='3047967'] I'm surprised you get heard clearly out front without PA with the master between 8-9 and input gain at 1. With PA, no problem. I bought that amp mostly as I generally only needed a stage monitor and it worked beautifully for that, and so easy to carry. But without PA... it sounds good on stage but get out in the floor (wireless) and you don't disappear entirely but there's no 'mass' to it at all. My experiences are largely with a ska(ish) band with a drummer, three guitarists/vocals, two trumpets and a sax. Lots of people but not necessarily very very loud. My EQ on that amp was generally flat (occasionally bumping/cutting something, a tiny bit), and filters off. In our music the bass is prominent and the little combo can't do it alone. I honestly cannot imagine any band except for quieter jazzy ones being able to pull it off. That speaker is pretty good, but it's a tiny enclosure (a great part of the combo is taken up by the amp, it's a lot smaller than the 'equal size' extension cabinet in fact)... I needed an extension cab if I had no PA support and we were not playing but the smallest rooms. [/quote] I guess that all kinda makes sense; the larger rooms tend to be the ones where we have PA support for the backline because the venue is expecting to need it, at which point the sound guy can add as much additional volume and bottom end as he sees fit without making me suffer it on stage, whereas the smaller rooms where the backline has to do its job and only vocals go through the PA are of a size that the amp can handle with just a bit of a push on the master volume, plus they usually have smaller stages so my rig is more than likely against a wall, which may help. I do usually play wireless and go walkabout in the room during soundcheck to make sure it's all coming through as we'd want, so I'm confident that on the smaller gigs I've not just been [i]hoping[/i] I was coming through So I suppose I'm looking out for 200ish+ capacity venues with weedy house PA systems as the warning sign that I might want to pack the Super 12 instead.

[quote name='The GroovyPlucker' timestamp='1462887123' post='3046638'] re the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Markbass CMD121P, I had one of these on it's own and I was drowned out by the drummer.[/font][/color] [/quote] [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1462974439' post='3047449'] That combo alone... you'll be pushing it. I had one and it's great but it would be a bit short for what you want without another cab. [/quote] [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1462981576' post='3047552'] ...I am in two other, rockier, bands with loud drummers and it wouldn't stand a chance on it's own. [/quote] Hopefully it's not too far off-topic to ask, but what kind of size venue and type of tone are you guys going for when finding the CMD121p so lacking on its own? Please don't think I'm doubting what you're saying, I'm just genuinely interested because I've been using mine on its own for a while now and haven't had it run out of steam on me yet. I have much larger and more powerful amps/cabs, but space is usually at a premium both in transport and on stage so I'd like to use the 121p solo as much as possible, but at the same time it'd be really useful to know at what point I might end up asking too much of it and could expect a refusal - after all, there's little more annoying than owning something that would have done the job but not having taken it with you! I play in a two-guitar melodic/power metal band at nothing-like-sedate volumes but I've never had a problem with hearing myself on stage or being heard out in the room. Of course, FoH PA support makes a difference out in the room when you've got it in larger venues, as does foldback on stage, but I've played the 121p with all permutations of those two variables and in general the EQ stays 'flat' (all at-or-very-near 12 o'clock and cut the lows if it's a boomy stage), the filters stay off, the gain stays at 1 o'clock and the master volume varies between 8 and 10 o'clock depending on the setup in the room. Tone also makes a difference and mine is generally clean with no thunderously low component, plus I only play 4 string basses in Eb with this band, but we tune down to C for some of the songs in the set and even that doesn't seem to cause me a problem. I have other Markbass gear and completely get what you're saying about the amp being pretty much maxed-out by the time you're at 12 o'clock on the master, but I've only ever been near there once and that was when I first got my LMII years ago and still had an old cab that just didn't have the sensitivity to make the necessary noise without the application of additional wattage. Cheers in anticipation of your thoughts

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1462822693' post='3046065'] Haha. They really are pretty good. I gigged mine extensively for a year there, including sone pretty big stages, and it never let me down. If it's run through decent cone area then 250 watts will be more than enough for the majority of situations. Perhaps a bit bland sounding, but I think that's just a markbass thing. [/quote] Never actually used the blackline, but have used LMII, LMIII, LM800 and F1 extensively and never found any of them wanting. The 250W at 4ohms being enough doesn't surprise me at all - I play most of my gigs these days with my CMD121p combo on its own and rarely go beyond 10-o'clock on the master.

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1462821956' post='3046053'] Totally just dingying my post? 😂😄 [/quote] Oh yeah, sorry :-) missed your post - I was just looking through the bargain bits at my local shop, noticed it and remembered this thread. But, great idea - I completely agree! ;-)

If you like MarkBass, this could be a reasonable start to a cheapish and lightweight rig.. http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/markbass_little_mark_250_blackline_bass_head-ymarkbass41318.asp

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1458693331' post='3010006'] At this price point there is lots of choice however, bigger and louder..... [/quote] Very true, though my thinking is that most beginners don't need a big combo or stack when they're starting out, but most gigging bassists who've been at it a while might benefit from owning a good quality practice and jamming amp that's small enough to put in a cupboard when not in use or carry in a holdall on the bus/tube/train, in addition to their stage rig, so personally I'd buy that as a first amp and keep it, rather than start out with something in the middle ground and end up having to get rid and buy something bigger for stage and something smaller for home practice and jamming round at your mate's house. Of course, that's exactly the opposite of what I did because the kit just wasn't there to buy when I started out, but it'd certainly be my advice to somebody starting out these days.

Not sure about where you'll find the best price, but I can attest to it being a great little amp. It's not just a practice amp either - I mean it's not going to compete with a loud band, but I've used mine alongside acoustic guitar, keyboards and two singers, all going through a PA for a bit of reinforcement, and it made a great little monitor; much louder than I expected. The only thing I'd say it might lack for some styles and occasions is EQ, but I've put a Boss GEB-7 pedal in front of mine a couple of times and it worked really well. Wish it'd been available to be my first amp, because it sure beats a Park B25mkII!

The loudest gig I've ever been to and not realised just how loud it was until I walked out half deaf (because it was engineered so well it didn't actually hurt) was Def Leppard at Sheffield Arena on the Slang tour in 1996. The loudest gig I've ever been to just for stupid, painful, unnecessary hearing damage was The Darkness' Carling Homecoming at the Astoria in 2003. The 'loudest performance on bass guitar' award, however, goes to Oliver Dawson Saxon at the Trades Club in Rotherham a couple of years ago - two Ampeg 8x10 rigs at full pelt in a room the size of a fairly standard pub was a practical education in how not to treat an audience. I left.

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1458074297' post='3004509'] That is VERY interesting... Anyone know if there are any of the pre-E RM800s still going cheap anywhere? [/quote] Definitely worth having a scout round - I picked one up in mint condition as an ex-demo clearance offer over the weekend because it looked like a bit of a bargain (and I remembered reading a certain 9/10 review on here) so they're potentially still out there.

I've used a P-bass through a Peavey VB-2 into a 4ohm Markbass 104HR which is pretty close, and that sounded great for hard rock / melodic metal. I've never played through the HF version, but I can't see it sounding bad just for being front ported and a little bit bigger.

Perhaps an LM800? I've always thought of it as being slightly more 'clinical' sounding than the LM2. Could be the difference in power amp design or maybe just the additional clean headroom from being a little more powerful, but there's certainly a difference and it may suit.

I played 5s exclusively for a long time, but I ended up trying one of the then-new Mexican 4 string Precisions that had just come out in 2009ish and it was a "have to buy it" moment. I took it along to a rehearsal as a bit of a joke (my main basses then were Vampyre and Warlock 5-strings so the white/white/maple P was something of an aesthetic change) but I ended up enjoying it so much that I've been predominantly in the 4-string camp ever since.

[quote name='Tech21NYC' timestamp='1447774697' post='2910236'] How were you using the RBI into the Crown? What were the specific settings on both the RBI and power amp? What type of bass, passive or active? Any other effects in line before the RBI and in the loop or placed between the RBI and power amp. The thing to remember is that those specs are usually based on a 1kHz sine wave, we typically use a 500 Hertz sine wave. You mentioned the amp worked fine for the PA. What speakers and system? Bass is the hardest thing to amplify. You need more power for the low end. Were you running the bass through the PA system? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but playing one instrument through a bass cab situated on the floor is not the same as a PA system with speakers that are pole mounted or suspended in the air with sub woofers etc. [/quote] Yeah, I get what you're saying - there are a lot of possible variables on both sides and I honestly have no idea at this point what the settings on either piece of equipment were when I was experimenting with the RBI/XLS rack. I'm not the least technically minded person out there and I did experiment quite thoroughly with settings, patching and instruments, but it's feasible that I missed something. It's interesting to reflect that my backup rig in the event of a complete failure is a choice of BDDI or VTDI into a Bose A1 PackLite power amp, and that works brilliantly and is every bit as loud and clear as you'd expect... maybe even louder!

[quote name='Tech21NYC' timestamp='1447690832' post='2909524'] Sorry but this is not correct. We have been through this numerous times on the Talk Bass forum years back. We even measured our RBI's output to duplicate Crown's test specs. These are the results: :Part of the problem is that Crown makes power amps for sound reinforcement applications not musical instrument use. While a pro multi channel mixer with all its channels being driven to the max can put out a significant signal level and exceed the input level requirements of the Crown there is no extra output to be had. You would simply have to turn down the gains on the Crown to prevent the mixer from overloading the input of the power amp. You would have to do the same with the RBI. The wattage rating of the power amp and your speaker system are only part of the equation. Typically many bass cabs that handle higher wattage ratings are also lower efficiency. You have to look at the SPL the cab is capable of reproducing and most bass cabs will not compete with high quality sound reinforcement speaker systems. With an amp like the Crown if you're looking for 1000 watts RMS, Crown will recommend a 2000 watt power amp. This is because music is not a steady sine wave. If you don't have the added headroom the power amp will clip at any sustained sounds that go beyond the RMS limit. They can handle small peaks but not continuous peaks. I would recommend to the OP to try using the RBI into his amps EFX loop return (if provided) to bypass the preamp section of the amp. This will give you a good idea of the sound of the RBI on its own. There is also a way to use the RBI independently from your amp's preamp with certain models of amps. [/quote] Sorry if you feel that I've spoken out of turn. All I can say is that my cabs at the time were a Barefaced Super 12 and a Markbass STD104HR (both 4ohm and neither considered to lack sensitivity) and the most I was wanting to get out of the rig was the equivalent volume of my 500W Markbass head, so the bridged 1500W XLS was more than the 'recommended' 2x over-spec. The RBI didn't work well for me, but my old Peavey TB-Raxx preamp worked fine in its place - I just didn't want to use the Peavey in my gigging rack and risk damaging it. I swapped the XLS out and the RBI then worked fine into my Markbass head (just as you yourself suggest) and the XLS proved its worth as a PA amp. Given that I'd proven all the bits were fine on their own and with other combinations of gear, the sensible conclusion seemed to be that the RBI and XLS just didn't work well together for some reason. One not having the requisite poke to drive the other was what I came up with, but I admit it was just a guess and I'm happy to stand corrected.

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447260474' post='2906233'] Hi Ed, Other than the RBIs lack of signal to drive the Crown XLS1500 was the sound quality OK?. Were you using the Crown XLS in Bridged or stereo mode? Would a active bass make a difference? I am thinking about the Crown XLS 1002 produces 1100W in to 4 ohms bridged which seems more than ample if the new higher sensitivity input allows the RBI to drive the power amp. Appreciate your feedback. Cheers [/quote] Hi Graham, Other than the mismatch between the RBI and XLS, the power amp is great - so good that I bought another and shipped out my old Yamaha P3500S which I never thought I'd get rid of... but (quite unscientifically) the rack case with both XLS1500s in it is probably lighter than the Yamaha on its own. When I was using the XLS for bass, I was using it bridged into a Barefaced Super 12 (sensitive 4ohm 2x12 in the unlikely event that you haven't come across one on your travels) and whilst it was loud enough, the XLS was on full and the settings that I had to use on the RBI were such that an excessive amount of hum / mains noise / RFI etc. was coming through. In the end, I just dropped the Crown out of the rack and put my Markbass LM2 in, which eventually resulted in me just using the LM2 without the rest of the rack. Hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is, I wish I'd tried putting my MXR micro-amp between the pre and power to just give the signal a push going into the amp, but I didn't think of it at the time, and I've since traded the RBI as it wasn't getting used, so I can't give it a go. I don't think an active bass would make much difference; the signal needs to be hotter leaving the preamp, not going into it. I think the new XLS1002 would be fine bridged into a 4ohm cab, though I might be tempted to go for the 1502 myself as it would have a bit more poke per-side for conventional PA / monitor use, so might be more handy from a double-duty perspective for the same size and weight. That, and hey, you can always turn down if you've got too much power but turning up past full can be tricky.

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1447220527' post='2905859'] Crown's new Drivecore 2 series should solve this - switchable input sensitivity 1.4V/0.775V http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xls-1502 [/quote] Nice.. and the right colour this time, too! Aside from the input sensitivity the old ones were/are great and, although I didn't rate the RBI/XLS combination, I still have two 1500s in a 4U rack for occasional PA duties. Might have to see about getting a v2 to try with bass preamps :-)

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447187164' post='2905699'] I will also consider the Crown XLS1500 which is a very good price on Thomann at the moment. [/quote] That was my rig for a while... Looked quite cool but, if I'm honest, the RBI wasn't such a great match with the XLS1500 as it didn't seem to put out a strong enough signal to really drive the power amp. It was alright, but nowhere near as loud as the XLS is actually capable of when used for PA and driven by a decent mixer.

Maybe not bargain of the century, but I was pleased with my as-new Peavey VB-2 that I picked up for under half its RRP a couple of months ago. When the Peavey warehouse closed and they auctioned everything off, a bloke bought one as an investment and held on to it hoping that it'd become insanely desirable and pay for his retirement. By the time I saw it advertised and bought it from him, he was happy just to get the cupboard space and his investment back!

I noticed the same with mine - both Indonesian and bought within a few weeks of each other. Sadly I can't tell you what the weight of the combo was as-new because I've taken the Combo Head 2 out of mine and replaced it with a Little Mark 800, but the LM800 is definitely heavier than the CH2 so the combo will be slightly heavier now than it was when I bought it and there's still over 1kg difference between the combo and cabinet. Modified combo in roqsolid cover = 12.68kg. Stock cabinet in roqsolid cover = 13.82kg. My best guess is that some of the reduction in weight of the combo comes from the wood that's missing to allow for the amp head, and some of the extra weight of the cabinet is in the metal top handle and tweeter attenuator that the combo doesn't have; the rest that I can't visually account for I've just put down to construction / bracing, and I've never let it unduly concern me. Most of the time I only need to take the combo out to gigs, so that being the slightly lighter half of the rig is just a little bonus.

£300 would get you a new Bose A1 "PackLite" - the power amp module that normally runs the B1 and B2 bass modules in their L1 line array systems. I picked one up when I saw it going cheap ex-demo a few months back because it looked like a handy backup not only for me, but also our guitarists as both use pre / power rack rigs. It's 'only' 250W at 4ohms but it's plenty loud enough and no bigger than a slightly old-school desktop hard drive. I've used it with a VT-Bass DI as a preamp and it performed perfectly.

The Beyerdynamic Opus 89 was a good female lead mic. Sadly it's discontinued, but the Beyerdynamic TG V71d seems to be their current take on the same idea so might be worth a look.

I have the passive version of the ART (Z-Direct?) somewhere kicking about; I was playing sound-tech as a last-minute favour to a mate a few years back and needed another DI, but I knew it'd ultimately be out of my own pocket so got the cheapest thing at the first shop I could get to. It's sturdy enough, has all the features you'd expect (maybe even some you might not given the price) and it's a lot less noisy than some I've used. It doesn't get much of a look-in these days because I've picked up various Radial units over the years, but if I had to use it I wouldn't be worried. No experience of the Samson (though I've got a couple of their mic's and they've been fine) but at the lower-priced end of the market I've used Behringer's DI20 and DI100 units, and neither sound as good to me as the ART. That said, they all sound a bit flat compared to the Radial Pro-DI and Pro-48, which aren't massively expensive themselves and would be my recommendation to anyone wanting a decent DI.

New top-scorer for me; the house amp at a venue we played a couple of weeks ago turned out to be a Stagg CA-100B/115 and it is easily the worst amp I've ever ended up trying to play through. Was an all-dayer with short changeovers and nowhere to store kit, and I was on public transport anyway so just thought 'sod it, I'll play through whatever they're providing'. In the end, after a coupe of mins trying to find a tone that was loud enough without being fuzzy and on the edge of feedback, I just turned it off and went with a clean DI and a bit of bass in the monitors.

A definite +1 on being surprised that the LMIII and 4ohm 104HF are running out of steam - I have an old LMII, a new style LMIII and an LM800, and whilst the LM800 is very likely capable of a bit more volume, I've certainly never been in a position to test the theory in practice! To my ears, compared to the LMII/LMIII the LM800 sounds a bit less rounded, a bit more 'snappy' and can sometimes even feel just a bit clinical; I would say that whatever has been done to the power stage in the newer LMIII heads, the amp as a whole still has more in common with the LMII than the LM800. On that basis, you may find that the LM800 caters better for your requirement to put a hole right through a much bigger sound not because of the additional wattage, but rather just because of its slightly different delivery.

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1439143395' post='2840375'] If you can scrape together another 50 quid, This would be ideal. You may of course get them cheaper 2nd hand. http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mark-bass-mini-combo-cmd-121-p/4276?gclid=Cj0KEQjw9JuuBRC2xPG59dbzkpIBEiQAzv4-GxoElMF_fQsR3fLzldkJuQ6p7FUSg6w21h8nHSQzy1caAuNh8P8HAQ [/quote] Yup, the 121p is where it's at for me - absolutely great little combo and you can always add the NY121 extension later if you feel the need. It's plenty loud enough on its own, though.