Compressor or limiter?

[Ancient Mariner]

Bass-novice here, as you're probably aware still.

I've been playing around a bit with different techniques, and one of the things that's obvious is that mixing rounded finger style tones with slapping and popping is impossible because of the volume differences. In the guitar world I'd throw a compressor at it (I love compression on guitar anyway, especially clean guitar) but on a bass it just seems to muddy-up the tone. Would I be correct in thinking that what is really required here is limiting, to prevent the enormous peaks in signal breaking through?

I quite like the sound of just the bass + amp, and don't want to spoil that. My instinct would be to put a volume pedal after the limiter in the signal chain, thus controlling both peaks and overall volume without sucking life from the tone.

[Currrls]

the difference between a compressor and limiter is explained very well [url="http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/limiter.shtml"]here[/url]

once youve read that have a look at the whole of that site. its got reviews for looooads of different compressors

[nick]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='764998' date='Mar 5 2010, 12:15 PM']Bass-novice here, as you're probably aware still.

I've been playing around a bit with different techniques, and one of the things that's obvious is that mixing rounded finger style tones with slapping and popping is impossible because of the volume differences. In the guitar world I'd throw a compressor at it (I love compression on guitar anyway, especially clean guitar) but on a bass it just seems to muddy-up the tone. Would I be correct in thinking that what is really required here is limiting, to prevent the enormous peaks in signal breaking through?

I quite like the sound of just the bass + amp, and don't want to spoil that. My instinct would be to put a volume pedal after the limiter in the signal chain, thus controlling both peaks and overall volume without sucking life from the tone.[/quote]

Bit of a late convert to compression myself, so not an expert by any means. Was previously fairly anti-compressions for all the usual reasons; taking dynamics away..etc
However, use one now. Settled on an EBS MultiComp, which doesn't muddy anything up & is pretty transparent. However, don't use one for everything I do, only really for covers/function band stuff.

From what you say you want, I would suggest a limiter. Apart from the usual arguments regarding durability etc, would recommend the Behringer BLE 100, or possibly the GLX Bass Limiter which is in a more robust enclosure. Both are a pretty cheap way of finding out if that's what you need.

[alanbass1]

I've always used compression since I got rid of my SVT head back in the 90's. I find most pedals do muddy the sound, although the EBS is pretty decent on the troband setting. My favourite compressor for bass is the DB160A which gives yoiu both compression and limiting, although the compressor built in the TC Electronics RH450 head is really nice. I also like a well designed valve compressor and can recommend the Summit TLA 50 and the built in compressor to the Markbass TA501.

[EskimoBassist]

I bought an EBS MultiComp for exactly the same reason that you describe here, probably the best pedal I have ever bought. I couldn't recommend it enough!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='nick' post='765933' date='Mar 6 2010, 11:40 AM']would recommend the Behringer BLE 100, or possibly the GLX Bass Limiter which is in a more robust enclosure...[/quote]
I'm a big fan of the BLE100 - in fact they're so cheap I managed to pick up a second one on ebay for about £6 to keep as a spare, however my original one is showing no signs of falling apart.
It enables me to play with a lighter touch while staying audible.
I have owned and tried many compressors, but never really been happy with them as I didn't like the squashed sound I'd typically get out of them.

[Grand Wazoo]

This one I recommend

[url="http://www.ovnilab.com/reviews/markbass.shtml"]http://www.ovnilab.com/reviews/markbass.shtml[/url]

[Ancient Mariner]

Thanks guys - input much appreciated.

[cheddatom]

I deffinitely think you want a limiter rather than a compressor.

[Ancient Mariner]

Agreed.

[Bankai]

I just got a dbx166 after having it recommended. It's a stereo comp so I'll be running them in series.

First stage will be working as a harsh limiter pre-effects and then there'll be a gentle compressor inserted post-effects

[xgsjx]

I'd agree if you was to choose one then a limiter is more likely to suit.
I don't use either & have (with mucho practice) learned to control how hard I slap as I play some songs that switch techniques.

[crez5150]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='775721' date='Mar 15 2010, 09:28 PM']I'd agree if you was to choose one then a limiter is more likely to suit.
I don't use either & have (with mucho practice) learned to control how hard I slap as I play some songs that switch techniques.[/quote]

+1 here.... I can't see that either would help..... I play a lot of Slap and finger style throughout my sets and I use neither and suffer no loss of volume. Maybe if you were recording the material but not live.,

[bassbloke]

I've found myself using compression less and less over the years. I run a limiter in my signal chain with the threshold set really high. It's really just there to protect my speakers if I get carried away.

Slap sounds better the more gentle you are - the notes will have better sustain and you get more of a contrast between slap and pop as opposed to just loads and loads of attack.

[cheddatom]

IMO there's a big difference between using compression to correct a lack of dynamic consistency in your playing, and using it for tonal effect. I don't want people to be put off compression by the common view of "compression is only for people who can't control their dynamics" because it can be really useful IMHO.

[Bankai]

I'm going to be using a dual/stereo comp.

One channel is set to work as a limiter, basically to protect the speakers. The second channel will be running gentle compression just to make the playing sound more rounded.

[mildmanofrock]

I use the EBS multicomp, settings on tri-band and knobs at 10 o'clock - so very subtly applied. I don't really use it to control my dynamics, as I think it's already quite uniform - it just adds a nice crispness to the sound.

[cheddatom]

If you have the option to mix two signals together, it would be worth trying the two channels in parallel, or better yet...

Set one channel to punchy compression, then mix this around 50% with clean, then feed that into the limiter!

[Ancient Mariner]

Well, as of this afternoon I should have a limiter on the way - I'm not afraid to admit that with my relative lack of skill, it will do me no harm at all.

As for compression being used for itself instead of as a tool to save the ears of innocent bystanders, I quite agree. By choice, for guitar I normally run clean and use a lot of compression to fatten out arpeggios & make the guitar more responsive to the touch. It's also great if you want to really dig in hard for funky sounding chord work. Love compression, and hate having to do without it. But for bass, sustain is something I don't need more of (starting to experiment with foam dampers under the strings at the bridge) and a limiter should be just the tool.

[Ancient Mariner]

Well the limiter I picked up was just the ticket. Not only has it stopped the spikiness but it's also fattened things up and helped introduce a bit of growl. The bass (a budget Jazz type) sounded somewhat thin before, but now it's much fuller. It's also reduced the flabbiness of the bottom E quite a bit. Took it to a band practice tonight, and it's really sweetened things up. Very worthwhile.

[Kohpnyn]

It's worth keeping the limiter/compressor off when you're practicing alone.
Just one of many things that can hide technique issues.
What limiter did you buy? Glad to hear you're happy with it.

[escholl]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='776021' date='Mar 16 2010, 09:51 AM']If you have the option to mix two signals together, it would be worth trying the two channels in parallel, or better yet...

Set one channel to punchy compression, then mix this around 50% with clean, then feed that into the limiter![/quote]

Try putting the limiter before the parallel compression. Set the threshold above the compressor threshold (obviously), that way the compressor doesn't have to deal with the signal peaks and can really work more effectively on shaping the dynamics. Otherwise you are still caning the compressor with the peaks, which you don't limit till afterwards, when it's too late!

[cheddatom]

[quote name='escholl' post='784275' date='Mar 24 2010, 01:48 AM']Try putting the limiter before the parallel compression. Set the threshold above the compressor threshold (obviously), that way the compressor doesn't have to deal with the signal peaks and can really work more effectively on shaping the dynamics. Otherwise you are still caning the compressor with the peaks, which you don't limit till afterwards, when it's too late![/quote]

Interesting! I'll give that a go, thanks.

[Ancient Mariner]

[quote name='Kohpnyn' post='784205' date='Mar 23 2010, 11:57 PM']It's worth keeping the limiter/compressor off when you're practicing alone.
Just one of many things that can hide technique issues.
What limiter did you buy? Glad to hear you're happy with it.[/quote]

Cheers - I'll keep that in mind.

It was a GLX (Boss copy) from a forumite, like [url="http://www.dangleberrymusic.co.uk/p-440-glx-bass-guitar-effects-pedal-bosshog-series-bass-limiter-pedal.aspx"]this[/url]