Adrenochrome Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 It's the vocabulary for modern (exc jazz/classical) western music. Most "blues" I find boring as hell but the flattened notes in those scales crop up [i]everywhere[/i]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 teej, my earlier post was of course, a bit glib.. Blues done well, not a problem, and I have to admit I do know some very good blues gtr players..IMV.. and am happy to take that gig but I don't approach it as we are all there to hold up the gtr blues show all the time and thankfully neither do the guitar players. But...when it is played in a very basic form..and not so well by the whole band, then I can give it a big miss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorbass Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='Marvin' post='704966' date='Jan 7 2010, 11:12 PM']You gotta start somewhere. And it depends what you do with the blues. I always end up playing a shuffle beat which p1sses the drummer I jam with off because he can't do shuffle very well - which I've always thought was odd.[/quote] I play in blues bands and go to a lot of blues jams and Im amazed that most drummers dont have a good blues shuffle, or if they do they only have the one. As a blues bass player im expected to have different shuffles and turnarounds coming out of my ears, but many drummers dont - this is where blues gets a lot of bad press i think. I think blues is a good style to have knowledge of as it crops ups in so many different genres and it was the music (along with country) that spawned rock n roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='704510' date='Jan 7 2010, 05:53 PM']Why is Blues so important when learning bass, it must be me but it always reminds me of Croyde Bay Devon Holiday Camp, Butlins, Caravan Parks from when I was 7 years old, with bored looking bass players playing.....ba-bump-ba-bump-da-dump-da-dump sort of tunes with another guy on a Hammond Organ and a drummer. Seriously, almost every learning medium I have come across declares that blues is the mother of all modern funk/disco/rock, everything bar classical, but I can't hear the blues riffs in most of the funk and disco songs that I know and love. educate me please.[/quote] ANY music done badly is bad and boring! The guys that were playing in the holiday camp were probably very average players just "earning" and would probably have been unlistenable to most of us no matter what genre they were playing. Even Clapton gets boring these days when he puts his blues hat on! He certainly wasn't boring between 1966 and 1969, so if you listen to the good guys you can see how blues has progressed. You might not be able to hear much of it but Led Zep, T Rex, Bowie, Stones, Jeff Beck, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, Pink Floyd etc all started playing blues, so all the players that have been influenced by them, whether they know it or not, have blues music in their heritage. These bands then progressed to playing other things but blues is at the foundation of their playing. You might not know it but if you care to look the musical family tree is there for you to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I think Out to play Jazz and Teej have made the most important contributions here. Having a really solid grasp of the blues it's harmony, and form and many manifestations will stand you in good stead for the vast majority of music that is deemed popular, commercial etc but it also has a strong place in jazz and of course blues bands and in fact it is one of the unifying factors between them all. You can get a long way in lots of music by knowing your blues and maj and min pentatonic scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='doctorbass' post='705128' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:01 AM']....Im amazed that most drummers dont have a good blues shuffle, or if they do they only have the one....[/quote] You're right. Shuffles should swing but many drummers don't do that anyway!! Most of them play a "rock" shuffle on the bass drum which sounds terrible, lumpy and laboured. I always ask/tell drummers to play 4's on the bass drum which moves the shuffle onto the snare and cymbals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Many thanks for the replies gentlemen, I wish I'd never started this, maybe my question is wrong and I need to understand a lot more about music structure, in a year and it may come to me and I will think why did I ask this, but I gota say that 'questioning' the Blues seems almost sacrosanct .. Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining, I like a good blues tune they are bright and bouncy and good fun, I just have a wish to understand...saying [i]it[/i] influences isn't enough...that seems too easy. Most of the examples given, are to me, different groups take on the Blues, it seems take everyone has to do it at some time? Has anyone got any example of how a blues riff influences a known funk disco bassline...and I don't mean Slave doing the blues I was sitting down yesterday as I got home early from the car auction and started playing what to me are typical funk/disco basslines....Car Wash, Brick House, Slave Just a Touch Of Love then finished with Positive Force We Got the The Funk.... It seems to me, and yes, I'm a 100% rookie here just talking loud with very, very limited knowledge of theory, and flame me if you wish by all means, that Funk and Disco has it's own basic scale, based on a major it would run as root, 2nd, 4th, 5th, flat 7 and 8ths by the bucket load....which I think is a sort of a minor pentatonic scale but with the flat 3rd scale I think...oh dear it's getting technical.....and I'm struggling already for all I know this could be labled as a blues scale and I have answerd my own question? What I think is a typical blues A major riff of 1st,3rd,5th,6th and flat 7, another in G major of root, 5th, flat 7 and octave (8th)...couldn't find much in common with the tunes I played.....it must be me as I can't see it? thanks for your patience guys...and understand that I simply wish to understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='JTUK' post='705122' date='Jan 8 2010, 08:50 AM']But...when it is played in a very basic form..and not so well by the whole band, then I can give it a big miss...[/quote] Glib or not, it certainly carried a kernel of truth! As a big blues fan and professional blues bassist I loathe the 'blues as a vehicle for rock-guitar cliches' approach that seems to dominate the contemporary blues scene. As buskers we see instantly what works well and what doesn't, and some of our biggest earners are when our front man puts the guitar down and we perform as a harp/drums/upright bass trio. I'll bet that back in the day Muddy Waters and Howling Wolf were regarded primarily as singers, not guitarists. Someone posted a comment about the best music being from a melting pot: and the blues always was - with big variations due to location, function (ie where it was performed and who to) and time period. A lot of bands sound like they've taken one narrow example (probably Elmore James' version of Dust My Broom, or something by Stevie Ray Vaughan) from this vast bewildering organic gumbo and not looked any further. I suspect a lot of the books/learning sites using blues as starting point will not actually point the learner to the broad scene of the '40s/'50s, but the narrower post '60s. After all, that earlier stuff is not always so easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) OK, I'm getting there I think... this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues love the look of that bass too..anyone know what it is? Edited January 8, 2010 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705173' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:45 AM']this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues[/quote] Umm... it certainly has thhe chords of the blues... that's about it, though. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705173' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:45 AM']OK, I'm getting there I think... this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues [/quote] Y'know, I'm just beginning to wonder if this whole thread is just a wind-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 car wash IS a blues derived bassline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705159' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:30 AM']....Has anyone got any example of how a blues riff influences a known funk disco bassline....[/quote] The brass riff in Cold Sweat came from So What by Miles Davis. Led Zep's Whole Lotta Love was a rip off of You Need Love by Willie Dixon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='705176' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:46 AM']Umm... it certainly has thhe chords of the blues... that's about it, though. IMO.[/quote] OK, I'm getting there I think... this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues.....a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='jakesbass' post='705189' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:54 AM']car wash IS a blues derived bassline.[/quote] It is?....can you explain how? Simply, please I'm a simple soul. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705199' date='Jan 8 2010, 10:04 AM']OK, I'm getting there I think... this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues.....a little [/quote] Just take a look at the tiny shifts in the history of music (especially in America) in the last 120yrs and the strain of blues running through all of modern music is unmistakeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wheeler Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Blues is ruined by people who think simple = easy. There are thousands, possibly millions of players who can pour out torrents of notes but very few who can really hold your attention with just a few well chosen and beautifully played ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705173' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:45 AM']love the look of that bass too..anyone know what it is?[/quote] [url="http://www.pedulla.com/html/mvp_buzz.html"]Pedulla[/url], innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snip Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705173' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:45 AM']OK, I'm getting there I think... this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues love the look of that bass too..anyone know what it is?[/quote] Absolutely Brilliant... How does he get that sound.? I know he's playing a Pedulla bass, but what amp is he using.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) The amp in this vid is an Eden WT. He also uses Thunderfunk. Edit: Having now watched the vid I wouldn't call what he's playing Blues! Great drummer as always. Edited January 8, 2010 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I would have said that example above was masturbating, nice though it was. But not blues. This is blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='iconic' post='705173' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:45 AM']OK, I'm getting there I think... this vid has helped, I can hear the funk in this blues[/quote] The intro to that vid is essentially this: & you don't get much more Blues than the Wolf Re- "boring". The bass line to "Built for Comfort" is about as generic as they come - but with a vocal that powerful, I'd play it all night long. The song comes first. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='teej' post='705160' date='Jan 8 2010, 09:31 AM']As a big blues fan and professional blues bassist I loathe the 'blues as a vehicle for rock-guitar cliches' approach that seems to dominate the contemporary blues scene. ... A lot of bands sound like they've taken one narrow example ... from this vast bewildering organic gumbo and not looked any further.[/quote] Absolutely! There are far too many identikit Blooz bands out there, tramping the same, well-worn path and sanitising the life out of the standards. For many bands, the blues is just something to stick underneath a couple of guitar solos. No message, no dancing, no exchange of energy with the audience. A stripped-down neo-trad approach is great and more bands should try it. But I'm wondering how the blues is ever going to progress if 99% of the fans think the material is confined to endless variations on a Jimmy Reed shuffle or the numbing torture of a paint-by-numbers slow 12-bar. And that's without even considering the anti-heretical agenda of the dreaded Blues Police. It would also be interesting to see some contemporary lyrical and communicational approaches - I'm finding it increasingly difficult to suspend my disbelief when plump, middle-aged white Brits (like me) start banging on about Parchman Farm, chain-gangs and mojo bones. Edited January 9, 2010 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='706217' date='Jan 9 2010, 01:06 AM']I'm finding it increasingly difficult to suspend my disbelief when plump, middle-aged white Brits (like me) start banging on about Parchman Farm, chain-gangs and mojo bones. [/quote] Surely that is the nature of being in a covers band? A lot - if not most - music, not just blues, is written buy someone who is communicating some kind of life experience. Do you have to be similarly placed in order to play it? The majority of us middle-aged pentatonic heroes would be struggling to get together a set list from our demography, I would suggest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) a LOT of well thought out, articulate, eridite, intelligent, relevant to the issue and not at all patronising answers to, this thought, on this thread. I, myself have played in a good few blues bands of different "styles", ect over the years and, I have found, (scales/techs/theory stuff aside) it to be, on the whole,all things considered, on reflection.... quite "Dull" playing blues....... mind you if some curmudgeondly/cynical/been there done that/old bunch of 40 somethings were looking for a bass player in lancashire....well........it'd get me out of the house EDIT:BTW, don't call ANYONE a "cat" unless they are LITERALLY a cat......dear me!!!...... Edited January 9, 2010 by witterth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.