Increasing relief versus raising saddles to heighten action?

[Beedster]

I've read a lot and appreciated the logic relating to the importance of neck relief, but then I've owned basses by Modulus and Sadowsky that seemed to play perfectly with none, or at least, very little. I generally prefer a higher action, so what's the best bet, should I keep the neck straight(ish) and raise the saddles or vice-versa?

Chris

[Clarky]

[quote name='Beedster' post='681636' date='Dec 11 2009, 07:33 PM']I've read a lot and appreciated the logic relating to the importance of neck relief, but then I've owned basses by Modulus and Sadowsky that seemed to play perfectly with none, or at least, very little. I generally prefer a higher action, so what's the best bet, should I keep the neck straight(ish) and raise the saddles or vice-versa?

Chris[/quote]
The advantage of a straight neck is that you can raise and lower the saddles on a whim without buzzing. If you use neck relief instead you may find more buzzing issues arise at the dusty end especially if the humidity/temperature changes.

I vote for straight neck and adjust with saddles

[geoffbyrne]

+1 to the above. Personally I prefer my neck *almost* straight. I have about 0.5mm of relief at the 9th fret when holding down the 1st & end frets.

G.

[Ray]

Same here, I go for an almost straight neck.

I find that a greater neck relief gives you the same (or almost the same) action all the way up the neck which just feels weird to me. I like the action getting slightly higher as you go up the neck.

[Pete Academy]

It's a fine art. I would recommend a professional.

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='681671' date='Dec 11 2009, 08:16 PM']It's a fine art. I would recommend a professional.[/quote]

Looks like you'll have to send it up to me then Chris. It may take a while as I've got quite a few gigs around Christmas.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='681671' date='Dec 11 2009, 08:16 PM']It's a fine art. I would recommend a professional.[/quote]

I agree, I'm not necessarily going to do it myself, I'm interested to have views either way. Yours Pete?


[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='681695' date='Dec 11 2009, 08:47 PM']Looks like you'll have to send it up to me then Chris. It may take a while as I've got quite a few gigs around Christmas. [/quote]

Uh, yeh, like I'm gonna get it back What your thinking on straight versus relief Doc?

Thanks for the replies above guys, I've tended to keep necks pretty straight in the past, but when I first played this bass it had a hell of a lot of relief and played and sounded lovely. Andy's took some relief out before I collected from V&R (I wanted to check the neck would take it), and although the current relief is what I'm used to, I can't help wondering whether I should put a bit more back in?

Thoughts......?

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='Beedster' post='681702' date='Dec 11 2009, 08:56 PM']Uh, yeh, like I'm gonna get it back What your thinking on straight versus relief Doc?[/quote]

Same as most guys on here - 'slight relief' only. With La Bella Flats it's possible to get a low action which is relatively buzz free because they have less 'zing' to begin with.

My method would be to try totally straight to begin with, just to prove it can do that, and then back off say a quarter of a turn or so till you see a little daylight appear when fretting top and bottom.

The final adjust will be saddle height which has to suit your playing 'weight'. This can only be judged by how hard you hit the strings, where you play at the body end and whether you use fingers or plectrum. This last set of criteria is why I can never pretend to set a bass up for someone else unless I see how they play first of all. Everyone is different.

A final thought - if Sting were to use a 5-string, would the B buzz a lot? (sorry chaps)

[stinson]

Something I've been toying with recently on my 75 rosewood P. Got slight relief and tried to get lowish action with rounds, then realised that mostly I tend to dig in so I just raised the saddles, feels much better and works much better for my playing style.

[BassBod]

Another vote for "almost straight". Actually, that sums me up pretty well!

It does also depend a lot on the bass and the strings - on a trad Fender I'm much happier with a little neck bow than I would be on something more modern like a Warwick. And I don't mind working a bit harder playing flats than rounds.

[Mottlefeeder]

Another related question -

My basses are set up for low action without fret buzz, but above the 12th fret, the sound is choked, especially on the B and E strings.

Should I be moving towards a straighter neck and higher action, or a more banana shaped neck, and higher action, or a more banana shaped neck, and a shim, or something else?

David

[The Bass Doc]

It's sounding like 'straighter and raised' to me but you would expect it to be harder work at the top end. Then again the sound of fatter strings towards the body end is not very rewarding and you would be better crossing over on a 5 and leaving that top end for the higher strings which presumably don't choke as much.

[mrcrow]

[quote name='Beedster' post='681636' date='Dec 11 2009, 07:33 PM']I've read a lot and appreciated the logic relating to the importance of neck relief, but then I've owned basses by Modulus and Sadowsky that seemed to play perfectly with none, or at least, very little. I generally prefer a higher action, so what's the best bet, should I keep the neck straight(ish) and raise the saddles or vice-versa?

Chris[/quote]

action is saddles...relief is just to get rid of buzz...straight necks with high action would seem ok to me
but since i like low action i set the relief...bow..to my personal settings..not quite straight but just clear with frets 5 and 9 fretted and 7 just making a noise when plucked..need to be on the amp for this...its hard to do but gives the most practical setting for bow

[Lfalex v1.1]

I'm in accord with what everyone else says, but the pivotal issue is; "[i]Why[/i] do you favour a high action?" Is it tone? Do you attack the strings really hard? (I do. Too hard)
What styles do you play? Would a lower action benefit your fretting hand technique, stamina and speed?

The list is endless... But ultimately, I suppose it's a compromise. That said, if your action preferences are [i]so[/i] high that relief has negligible impact, go for straight!

[AndyTravis]

I'd go within a gnats chuff of straight, then you can muck about to your own taste with the saddles.

Unless someone specifies a big neck relief, it's how I do setups, and how i set my own gear up.

The only thing is, it can be a little unforgiving with older basses with some frets slightly more worn than others...in which case, a qualified luthier can do a fret dress while they're at it.
I'm going to have my 75 Reissue Jazz's frets done soon, as i just cant get it right and usually there isn't anything I can't do with a Fender...apart from Fretwork...

[mrcrow]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='682177' date='Dec 12 2009, 02:16 PM']Another related question -

My basses are set up for low action without fret buzz, but above the 12th fret, the sound is choked, especially on the B and E strings.

Should I be moving towards a straighter neck and higher action, or a more banana shaped neck, and higher action, or a more banana shaped neck, and a shim, or something else?

David[/quote]

i would start with standard bow...then select your action height
then set the pup heights

its basic and can give you a datum to work to

[geoffbyrne]

Choking above the 12th fret is often associated with a slight backbow. Try releasing the truss rod a touch.

G.

[Mottlefeeder]

Thanks for those replies - I'll have another go.

David

[Beedster]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='684368' date='Dec 14 2009, 07:43 PM']Thanks for those replies - I'll have another go.

David[/quote]

So anyway, back to the original question

If everyone seems to be for a straightish neck with raised saddles, which I'm not arguing with, are there any advantages of increasing the relief that can't be had through increasing saddle height alone?

C

[bigjohn]

[quote name='Beedster' post='685014' date='Dec 15 2009, 11:59 AM']So anyway, back to the original question

If everyone seems to be for a straightish neck with raised saddles, which I'm not arguing with, are there any advantages of increasing the relief that can't be had through increasing saddle height alone?

C[/quote]


Shouldn't you be able to achieve a generally less choked lower action through relief and shim than with a straight neck and saddle height?

Surely the straight neck does the oscillation of the plucked string no favours in terms of fret buzz?

I like a low action and find I need more relief to get one when I set up a bass for TIs which move a lot more than standard tension strings.

That said, because they're lower tension I tend to have to tighten the truss when putting them on in first place. And I just use trial and error really to get to a point where there's no buzz, then I use the saddles to get the action as low as I can. I tend not to bother with shims unless I can't get to a point where I'm happy.

Edited December 15, 2009 by bigjohn

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='Beedster' post='681702' date='Dec 11 2009, 08:56 PM']What your thinking on straight versus relief Doc?[/quote]

I can't believe Howard was asked this gem and didn't come back with a smutty response. I scrolled down the thread as fast as I could but was disappointed.

A golden opportunity missed, surely?

Or maybe my mind is just [b]too [/b]dirty....