Sibob Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 So, some of you may remember my Drop C Jazz bass that I have been using with my band FSOF, the neck was made my Mr Shuker due to some slightly odd specs I had at the time (pictured in my avatar) Recently I decided to put the bass back into standard tuning, which obviously involved some truss rod adjustment. Now, I really don't consider myself a novice when setting up a bass, I've done all my current batch, with great results. However, on this job, I think I just got a bit too complacent considering the difference with changing between long term drop tunings and just tweaking the rod for string gauges etc. I don't feel I was forcing the rod, but clearly I was. Stopped on a setting after some previous small turns and settling, tuned to pitch, played for 10 seconds and *CRACK*. Thats it, gone. Now to be honest, I'm not one for beating myself up for ages over something like this. The bass & neck have done so many shows, so from a monetary point of view, it's earned its keep. What I am REALLY angry about is that my complacency with a process that should have the up-most respect at all times, has negated the hard and talented work of Jon, as well as wasting some lovely woods! I'm currently emailing Jon to see if there's a solution, but suffice to say, I'm suitably embarrassed to be telling him the deal! Meh! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 ooooooooooops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 ugh, that is testicle wrenchingly bad news dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 I'm sending the neck back to Jon on Tuesday to see if anything can be done!. He thinks he might be able to sort something, but obviously needs to see it first. I really really hope it's realistically fixable. Like I said, I'm most angry at myself for the potential waste of wood! Collective basschat fingers crossed please lol Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Tough break mate, I hope it works out for you. Didn't you have another trussrod incident a while ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm always jittery around trussrod adjustments. I hope it works out well in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 [quote name='steve' post='669651' date='Nov 29 2009, 11:58 PM']Tough break mate, I hope it works out for you. Didn't you have another trussrod incident a while ago?[/quote] I did, and it was on this same bass haha, it's cursed! Although that time it wasn't my shortcomings that caused the truss to break, it did that all on its own through a flaw. Even Ian from BC who built it, didn't spot it when it went in. Got it home from his house, and it was gone!. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Eek! I hope Jon can fix it. I recently plucked up the courage to take a bit of the bow out of my Warwick Thumb and over the space of a week I must have given it at least a full turn before it started to make any discernible difference after rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 [[i]Ignorance[/i]]What should you have done that you didn't do, Si?[/[i]Ignorance[/i]] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm not sure really Jack. I mean, there was a bow after removing the high tension strings, stands to reason. Bow + action too high = clockwise turns of the truss rod! I turned a quarter turn or there abouts, let it settle over a couple of hours, and again, but there didn't it didn't seem to make a difference. Seemingly I forced it a bit to much, and after another little turn, took to pitch, played and BOOM. Horrible sound! What I'm guilty of really is not seeking professional advice when the neck didn't seem to be doing what I wanted, rather than keep going Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 On a side note....Jon just sent me an email.......IN THE DAY......FROM A BLACKBERRY!!! haha! good stuff! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 [quote name='Sibob' post='670038' date='Nov 30 2009, 02:41 PM']I'm not sure really Jack. I mean, there was a bow after removing the high tension strings, stands to reason. Bow + action too high = clockwise turns of the truss rod! I turned a quarter turn or there abouts, let it settle over a couple of hours, and again, but there didn't it didn't seem to make a difference. Seemingly I forced it a bit to much, and after another little turn, took to pitch, played and BOOM. Horrible sound! What I'm guilty of really is not seeking professional advice when the neck didn't seem to be doing what I wanted, rather than keep going Si[/quote] best to slacken strings between times when setting bow you give the truss 2x the work it has to do its a static element...not a jack really bad luck though..jon'll fixit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='670137' date='Nov 30 2009, 04:36 PM']best to slacken strings between times when setting bow you give the truss 2x the work it has to do its a static element...not a jack really bad luck though..jon'll fixit[/quote] Yeah, I did slacken strings between truss rod adjustment, but am probably guilty of taking them back to pitch too quickly! But your last sentence is very positive.....we like this lol Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 [quote name='Sibob' post='670419' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:57 PM']Yeah, I did slacken strings between truss rod adjustment, but am probably guilty of taking them back to pitch too quickly! But your last sentence is very positive.....we like this lol Si[/quote] No. If tuning finally snapped the rod, it was already over-adjusted. Tiny, slow, measured adjustments over time and patience is fairly crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 I think the patience is what I lacked in this particular situation! Compounded by the fact that the rod needed a little more work that the usual 'tweek' that a new set of strings might need. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 It happened on a rockbass corvette at work with me once. Sometimes it just happens. I heard a horror story about a shop where the saturday lad was doing a 'set up' a Gibson es335, and popped the fingerboard off. "YOU ARE f***ing FIRED!" Not to worry though, like i said, it can be a fault with the rod, or istrument rather than the handyworker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 MB1. If youre lucky he may be able to get the rest of the rod out without having to remove a section of the fingerboard(thats where it gets expensive!). Best Wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erisu Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Ouch! hope everything works out for you Si! I was thinking of changing between tunings in between songs with a Squier project bass I'm going to do from Drop C# to Drop D/Standard... I guess I should bring two basses to practises and gigs in future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='670456' date='Nov 30 2009, 09:28 PM']No. If tuning finally snapped the rod, it was already over-adjusted. Tiny, slow, measured adjustments over time and patience is fairly crucial.[/quote] the rod is resisting/balancing compression by supplying tension..its a tie rod i takes a helluva lot of load to break a tie rod if it is sound and has not material defects also if its steel then it should go plastic and deform first...it is an elastic material...hookes law so i think the threaded parts have come away from their anchors...which i presume are also metal..steel and the thread flanks have sheared...stripped the thread when you get this out i would really be interested in the actual failure...the rod...its anchorages in steel or its anchorages in the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='671104' date='Dec 1 2009, 02:20 PM']when you get this out i would really be interested in the actual failure...the rod...its anchorages in steel or its anchorages in the wood.[/quote] I thought anchorage was in Alaska? S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='erisu' post='671044' date='Dec 1 2009, 01:33 PM']Ouch! hope everything works out for you Si! I was thinking of changing between tunings in between songs with a Squier project bass I'm going to do from Drop C# to Drop D/Standard... I guess I should bring two basses to practises and gigs in future [/quote] Not necessarily mate The only reason why I had a bass (two actually) set up in Drop C (Standard - C, F, Bb, Eb) is because that is what my band plays in all the time, and rather than have horrible action and flobby strings, I used high tension strings to get an action akin to standard tuned basses. This of course meant that the neck was using a very different setup to a standard tuned/tension neck. If you're only dropping the bottom string to D and leaving the rest standard, or even bottom string to C#, and the rest to D tuning (so G, C, F). You'll probably be alright. The C# might start to sound a bit mucky and buzzy, but hey, it's the alternative to leaving a bass in a 'weird' tuning, depends how often you use it. [quote name='mrcrow' post='671104' date='Dec 1 2009, 02:20 PM']the rod is resisting/balancing compression by supplying tension..its a tie rod i takes a helluva lot of load to break a tie rod if it is sound and has not material defects also if its steel then it should go plastic and deform first...it is an elastic material...hookes law so i think the threaded parts have come away from their anchors...which i presume are also metal..steel and the thread flanks have sheared...stripped the thread when you get this out i would really be interested in the actual failure...the rod...its anchorages in steel or its anchorages in the wood.[/quote] This is all interesting stuff. I'll put it to Jon. Like I said, I don't feel I was 'Forcing' it, it was moving.....I wouldn't expect a rod to be loose moving round lol. I am of course ready to assume all responsibility though. Anyway, it's going to him today, so maybe by the end of the week or next week I'll have an expert opinion. Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I have to say I'm surprised by this sad tale - I've been repairing/setting up/etc. guitars and basses for six years and have never managed to break a truss rod yet, and I don't approach adjustment with as much hesitation as you have done - if tightening I make an adjustment and check it, adjusting again if necessary until it's done. If I'm going to tighten then I'll slacken a little first just to get things moving, but if it takes half a turn then that's what it gets. Obviously if it starts to feel tight then I'd take a bit more care, and consider my options (has it run out of adjustment, do I need to slacken the strings, maybe get the neck off and get a better look, etc.), but that's only happened a couple of times in what must be hundreds of truss rod tweaks. I have heard of it happening though - a local shop broke one recently, so I'm not blaming you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erisu Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='Sibob' post='671966' date='Dec 2 2009, 11:30 AM']Not necessarily mate The only reason why I had a bass (two actually) set up in Drop C (Standard - C, F, Bb, Eb) is because that is what my band plays in all the time, and rather than have horrible action and flobby strings, I used high tension strings to get an action akin to standard tuned basses. This of course meant that the neck was using a very different setup to a standard tuned/tension neck. If you're only dropping the bottom string to D and leaving the rest standard, or even bottom string to C#, and the rest to D tuning (so G, C, F). You'll probably be alright. The C# might start to sound a bit mucky and buzzy, but hey, it's the alternative to leaving a bass in a 'weird' tuning, depends how often you use it.[/quote] Well we have songs two songs in Drop C#, two in Standard and one in Drop D... I'm just thinking if we were to play at some tight venue, I think I'd only fancy bringing my cheapest bass along and drop tuning, up tuning for the whole setlist. I'm not worried about Standard and Drop D but I'm worried if I need to tune from Standard all the way down the Drop C#. And high tension strings are a must with Drop C# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 This could all be made soooo much more simple with a 5 string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 i must say i did forget about the shearing aspect of truss rod misuse it may be the overtightening did just that...sheared the thread or the actual body of the rod jon'll fixit how one gets into a truss rod after all the neck is built must be a real luthier job anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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