What note is between F# and G?

[solo4652]

I've been playing a Dido song where you move from F# to G. Because I play a fretless, I can easily "walk" the bassline from F# to G by playing the note in between the two, and it sounds fine to me. Just wondered if this note and others like it has an official name?

Steve

Edited September 15, 2009 by solo4652

[Sibob]

There is no distinct note between any note on the fretboard, certainly not in traditional western tunings at least.
I'm not sure I see the point in 'walking' between a semi-tone, but whatever works for you

Si

[chris_b]

Probably F## or Gbb depending on the key.

[velvetkevorkian]

Well, technically you've got an infinite number of notes on the fretboard, depending on how you want to divide it up. What you're getting at would be a quarter tone, which Wikipedia suggests as follows...

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtonal_music"]"Quarter-tone accidentals residing outside the Western semitone:[/url]
half-sharp, sharp, sharp-and-a-half;
half-flat, flat, flat-and-a-half, another variant of flat-and-a-half".

So it could be F sharp and a half or G half flat.

[ironside1966]

It's called a quarter tone, there are even music written in quarter tones.

[solo4652]

Thanks for the helpful replies guys.

Steve

[sdgrsr400]

If the song key was G, it would not be unusual for string players to sharpen the F# as it's called the "leading note" as it leads to the root (aka "tonic") of that key. The sharpening gives a stronger effect of resolution when you finally get to the G.

Edited September 16, 2009 by sdgrsr400

[dlloyd]

[quote name='chris_b' post='599576' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:35 PM']Probably F## or Gbb depending on the key.[/quote]

F## (usually written Fx) [i]is[/i] G.
Gbb is F.

(More correctly, F# is 'enharmonically equivalent' to G, etc.)

[chris_b]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='599929' date='Sep 16 2009, 09:58 AM']F## (usually written Fx) [i]is[/i] G.
Gbb is F.

(More correctly, F# is 'enharmonically equivalent' to G, etc.)[/quote]
Cheers. It was only a blind punt!

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='599593' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:54 PM']It's called a quarter tone, there are even music written in quarter tones.[/quote]


Yup, that's it. Easy to do on a fretless or EUB but a bit trickier on a fretted bass. Don't know the song but the easiest way in general is to do a small string bend. Picking up sdgrsr400's point, the musical effect is somewhat similar to the 'blue note' that guitarists often use in playing, er, Blues. (Commonest is to play a flat third and bend up just shy of the major third, but there are several blue notes in an octave - the object is always to land somewhere between two fretted notes by playing the lower fret position and bending.) Like the leading note technique, it produces a very satisfying musical sound once you can do it properly.

Edited September 16, 2009 by leftybassman392

[Bilbo]

There is no note between Fsharp and G because, if you are using the language of Western music, which you are, you implicitly default to the tempered scale and there are only 12 notes etc. If you are using quarter tones, the theory we all use in Western harmony is effectively null and void.

There are those purists who believe there is a subtle difference between Fsharp and Gb but they are increasingly rare.

Personally, I think you're just a nutjob

[crez5150]

[quote name='solo4652' post='599565' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:15 PM']I've been playing a Dido song where you move from F# to G. Because I play a fretless, I can easily "walk" the bassline from F# to G by playing the note in between the two, and it sounds fine to me. Just wondered if this note and others like it has an official name?

Steve[/quote]

Isn't it..... out of tune.....

[simon1964]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='600456' date='Sep 16 2009, 04:52 PM']There is no note between Fsharp and G because, if you are using the language of Western music, which you are, you implicitly default to the tempered scale and there are only 12 notes etc. If you are using quarter tones, the theory we all use in Western harmony is effectively null and void.[/quote]

I understand the point here, but it must be the case that there are intruments (fretless bass, trombone etc) where you can slide between two semitones, even using the terminolgy of western music? ie I can slide from F# and G, and if I do I am playing at a pitch between those two tones. Its just that Western Music doesn't have a name for them?!

Edited September 16, 2009 by simon1964

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='simon1964' post='600462' date='Sep 16 2009, 04:59 PM']I understand the point here, but it must be the case that there are intruments (fretless bass, trombone etc) where you can slide between two semitones, even using the terminolgy of western music? ie I can slide from F# and G, and if I do I am playing at a pitch between those two tones. Its just that Western Music doesn't have a name for them?![/quote]

There is a way of doing it but it's kind of cumbersome and not really a going concern in live performance, but....

Using Equal Temperament tuning, each note in the scale is specified using something called cents, with each note at the centre of a band of + or - 50 cents (if you have an electronic tuner, check out the markings). To get microtonal tunings (which is what they're more accurately called) just tune up or down the required number of cents from the centre position.

If you needed to write them down, I don't think there is a universal method, but what you could do is write the nearest ET note identity then add the number of cents up or down.

Example: in the key of Am (which is used a lot in Blues playing) there's a blue note between the flat third C and the major third (C#). I find I get the best sound by bending up from C to just short of the C#. You might write it as C#[sub]-20[/sub]

I did say it wasn't user friendly...

Edited September 16, 2009 by leftybassman392

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='599593' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:54 PM']It's called a quarter tone, there are even music written in quarter tones.[/quote]
Nancy Sinatra [i]These Boots are Made for Walking[/i] starts with a quarter-tone run down on bass.

[The Funk]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='600456' date='Sep 16 2009, 04:52 PM']There is no note between Fsharp and G because, if you are using the language of Western music, which you are[/quote]

If he was using the language of Western Classical music, I'd agree with you. But he's probably using the language of the blues, with its blue notes and quarter note bends.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='The Funk' post='600861' date='Sep 16 2009, 10:48 PM']If he was using the language of Western Classical music, I'd agree with you. But he's probably using the language of the blues, with its blue notes and quarter note bends.[/quote]

Touché

[johnm]

I still think he's out of tune..........

[Marvin]

[quote name='johnm' post='601229' date='Sep 17 2009, 12:44 PM']I still think he's out of tune.......... [/quote]
People tend not to like it when you play out of tune or when you play Dido.

[Spoombung]

Hang on the quarter tone for as long as you can and delay the transition and it'll sound fantastic (after all it's not difficult to improve a Dido song ). Violinists play quarter tones and slurs for a living; check out Dave Swarbick, for instance.