Pete Academy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 This has probably been discussed previously, what I'll ask anyway. What does everyone think about drummers that overplay - a fill every 4 or 8 bars etc, or a ridiculously over-the-top beat where a straight one will suffice? Have you ever had to sack a drummer because of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 My band basically built our style around it. [url="http://www.myspace.com/onceburningearth"]Link[/url] if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It drives me nuts. The limit of what I can handle is Neil Peart, as he's usually pretty musical andplayes 'parts'. I can't bear most... I've left bands because of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I grew up listening to drummers who play musically and with set phrases, likes of Bill Ward, Nick Mason etc. so I have a penchant for fluid drum lines. When watching bands (as no one is interested in hearing what you have to say about the bass) I feel more inclined to praise drum technique, sound or lack thereof and don't pay much attention to guitars or vox. Basically I find interesting drumming interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 The only drummer who ever bothered me was one who'd play full-beans fills lasting a bar or even two bars, way too often. But his beats were alright. He did drive me nuts with the fills though. What bothers me most is drummers who are too loud, and you ask them to play quieter, and they just slip back into hammering everything again. We auditioned three of those in a row last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='595828' date='Sep 11 2009, 04:47 PM']When watching bands (as no one is interested in hearing what you have to say about the bass) I feel more inclined to praise drum technique, sound or lack thereof and don't pay much attention to guitars or vox. Basically I find interesting drumming interesting.[/quote] Ditto. Though it doesn't have to be busy to be interesting. I really like drummers that think like arrangers and really build an emotive foundation (though I've never got Neil Peart despite him doing this). Did Keith Moon overplay? I think he just played right for Who they were. Overplaying is bad on any instrument - but some drummers (and bassists) can turn what would be overplaying into incredible groove oriented yet seriously busy playing, like Zig Modeliste, Rocco Prestia, David Garibaldi, Bootsy Collins, John Bonham, etc. Even when Jaco went high and busy he still grooved hard. And even when Ginger Baker and Keith Moon strung together one roll after another, so did they. So does Danny Carey from Tool, or Vinnie Paul. I really really really hate drummers that try to do big impressive fills and completely manage to lose the pocket in the process - they also tend to be the ones that don't listen generally. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Really really annoying! It's not so bad with drummers who know when to let loose and can do their bit...it's the ones that have no discipline to play a solid beat when that's what is required. It's the same with any instrument though - if a musician can't find the discipline to play a simple, solid, appropriate part instead of messing about with their favourite chops and fills, then IMO, they're not a good musician...or even adequate, regardless of their technical ability! Never sacked anyone for it, but I've avoided bands, refused to join bands, and I try to avoid going to see bands where I know the drummer is like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I LOVE drummers that can play their hi-hat really quietly whilst making the snare crack just-so and the kick properly stomp through the mix. But that's a bit of a tangent... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I've worked with one busy drummer (for years as it happens) & I just held back on the bass. I think it depends on the style of music you play but I've always looked for Charlie Watts over Keith Moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmpires Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 One of the drummers I most admire is Carter Beuaford and he's a very busy one, but is taste and way to place fills and odd beats is fantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 The concept of overplaying seems to vary massively between genres. One of my favourite drummers is Coady Willis (Big Business and Melvins), who's probably one of the busiest drummers I've ever heard. But it fits with the songs, and I wouldn't call it overplaying in the slightest. On the other hand, if he played grooves like this in a pub-rock band or funk outfit, he'd be awful: (Bad sound quality, yes, but you can check out the drumming.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='davidmpires' post='595845' date='Sep 11 2009, 05:04 PM']One of the drummers I most admire is Carter Beuaford and he's a very busy one, but is taste and way to place fills and odd beats is fantastic[/quote] I used to know a guy who played like that, every stroke bang on and nothing ever sounded out of place, but he got a reputation for being an unbearable w***er. No idea why to be honest - I always thought he was really likeable and easy-going - but it killed his career. I'd hire a player like him any day, they are way too rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 There is a lovely anecdote in Bull Bruford's autobiography where he is playing with Tony Levin in King Crimson. Early on, Bruford tried to get Levin to 'play more' by playing more but, the more Bruford did, the less Levin did. Bruford finally figured it out. Its an interesting point but are some of the criticms for busy drummers about busy drumming or is it about drummers not allowing us bass players to indulge ourselves unabated (16th note grooves sound far better over a straight groove than a busy one). Personally, I don't care how busy they are if they are musical. Regrettable, busy doesn't usually serve the music. I never really thought of Peart as busy. He just plays the parts he has written. Like it or not, its him. I also think that, whilst he is a very good and creative player, he is entirely overrated (ducks......). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='595862' date='Sep 11 2009, 05:23 PM']busty[/quote] If we'd had busty drummers I wouldn't have complained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='595862' date='Sep 11 2009, 05:23 PM']Like it or not, its him. I also think that, whilst he is a very good and creative player, he is entirely overrated (ducks......).[/quote] Well, I'm a proper Rush anorak, but since he got lessons from Freddie Gruber, he's completely lost the ability to groove. IMO. Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I've played with guys that have gotten bored and started playing broken triplet patterns over something like brown eyed girl-that really grinds my gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='595867' date='Sep 11 2009, 05:27 PM']Well, I'm a proper Rush anorak, but since he got lessons from Freddie Gruber, he's completely lost the ability to groove. IMO. Shame.[/quote] Peart's technique got slightly better after lessons with Gruber,but he was always a very stiff player anyway. For me, he was always much to analytical-every note perfect with nothing ever left to chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='595876' date='Sep 11 2009, 05:31 PM']Peart's technique got slightly better after lessons with Gruber,but he was always a very stiff player anyway. For me, he was always much to analytical-every note perfect with nothing ever left to chance.[/quote] IMO he always used to have one eye on a bit of a swing. Now, he's just... straight. His technique might be better, but who cares if it sounds worse? I blame them pesky jazzers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Peart could never swing-listen to his weak attempts on the Buddy Rich Memorial Concert...it's shockingly rigid. And I am a fan of Rush. Sorry to derail the thread Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='jonny-lad' post='595838' date='Sep 11 2009, 04:55 PM']Really really annoying! It's not so bad with drummers who know when to let loose and can do their bit...it's the ones that have no discipline to play a solid beat when that's what is required. It's the same with any instrument though - if a musician can't find the discipline to play a simple, solid, appropriate part instead of messing about with their favourite chops and fills, then IMO, they're not a good musician...or even adequate, regardless of their technical ability! Never sacked anyone for it, but I've avoided bands, refused to join bands, and I try to avoid going to see bands where I know the drummer is like that.[/quote] I like this reply. It's all about discipline for drums and bass. A few years ago I went to see a Bryan Adams tribute band. When the band went on, the drummer was bare-chested with a towel around his neck and a bandana on his head. I thought: 'We're in trouble here.' Bryan Adams is all about the songs. Two numbers in and I wanted to kill that drummer. He showed off so much it killed every track. Turned out the band knew he was spoiling it but didn't have the guts to tell him. Hanging offence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 The drummers I abhor most are those who: * Busy up their hi-hats in a kind of tickety-tickety 60's Merseybeat way, then lob the same pattern to that funny cymbal with the rivets for 'Variation' * Throw a fill in [i]every[/i] 4 bars of a 12-bar blues, with a full bar of fill in the 12th. Can they not just play the groove [i]through[/i] the changes? * Throw frantic rolls round their toms and come out half a tick ahead * Play like crazed Octopii on speed, but sit there like a gawping garden gnome when you ask them for a count-in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='595975' date='Sep 11 2009, 07:23 PM']The drummers I abhor most are those who: * Busy up their hi-hats in a kind of tickety-tickety 60's Merseybeat way, then lob the same pattern to that funny cymbal with the rivets for 'Variation' * Throw a fill in [i]every[/i] 4 bars of a 12-bar blues, with a full bar of fill in the 12th. Can they not just play the groove [i]through[/i] the changes? * Throw frantic rolls round their toms and come out half a tick ahead * Play like crazed Octopii on speed, but sit there like a gawping garden gnome when you ask them for a count-in[/quote] Great response!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 An old quote: He missed the first beat and spent the rest of the song catching it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben604 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) I find bassists that over play more frustrating. Edited September 11, 2009 by ben604 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Our singer complained she could never hear herself in certain songs and had difficulty singing certain phrases in others. We recorded them and guess what, eveytime there was a beak in the music to allow the vocal to stand out, the drummer would fill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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