Boutique Basses

[Pete Academy]

Carrying on from the BGM thread regarding expensive bass reviews, are boutique models worth the hefty price tag?

I've owned quite a few basses over the years, and have worked my way up through the ranks. I've also worked in music retail for over 30 years, so I've seen the vast improvement in far-Eastern instruments. However, I have to admit that boutique basses are worth the money. I've bought a few basses that on paper have the same spec as say an American Tobias or Stingray etc, but in reality just haven't come close, especially in a gigging situation. I recently treated myself to a Roscoe, after much research, and I have to say it's (in my opinion) unbeatable.

I'm sure many will disagree, though.

[phil_the_bassist]

A well kept, nicely set-up cheap bass will go a hellishly long way, especially compared to a poorly treated, badly setup higher-end bass IMHO...my £200 Washburn Bantham is a SlapMeister Of The Gods, and I've tried some high-end warwicks in the local shops that have been so badly setup by the monkeys that work there that I feel like I'm been indecently assaulted when I play them...

But I think that once you get to the MIA Fender/MM/Lakland/Sandberg/warwick etc etc territory you're kinda pretty much guaranteed a [i]nice[/i] bass and its down to personal preference as to which once you like best. The extra grand+ for a GB/Overwater/RIM is like (time for the car analogy!) spending the extra money to go from the 2 litre TDI Audi to the RS4 crazy-nutty-bastard lunatic-mobile...90% of the time it'll be giving you exactly what you can get from the standard version...but WHEN YOU NEED IT, it blows them outta the water!

spending the 3+grand on a GB will give you the same tones as a MM/fender/lakland etc etc for whatever you're playing, but [i]when you need it to[/i] it'll do SO much more.

At least, thats how I look at it, YMMV obviously!




[size=1]
...did that make any sense at all? [/size]

[BigRedX]

In a word, yes!

As with any product there is a law of diminishing returns the more money you spend, but if you have the cash why not have something that little bit more special?

Sure most of us could get by on a well set up Squier bass, but having something that was crafted especially for you, to look, play and sound how you want is going to inspire you all the more.

Also if like me you find looks just as important as tone and ease of playing, and you want something a bit more innovative than a rehash of 50 year old Fender designs then boutique/custom is pretty much the old way to go.

[alexclaber]

Also if you use a local and less well known luthier you can have an amazing and truly boutique bass at a much more accessible price. My RIM Custom 5 is a fine example of this.

Alex

[alexclaber]

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='530288' date='Jul 2 2009, 09:45 AM']But I think that once you get to the MIA Fender/MM/Lakland/Sandberg/warwick etc etc territory you're kinda pretty much guaranteed a [i]nice[/i] bass and its down to personal preference as to which once you like best. The extra grand+ for a GB/Overwater/RIM[/quote]

I don't know Robbie's current prices (he certainly deserves to have increased them!) but my RIM cost about the same as a StingRay 5.

Alex

[thedontcarebear]

I actually use my Sandberg, which cost me £450 instead of my custom which I had made for me, I think it turns out the Sandberg is even better for me by chance then something I decided on.

[Mr Fudge]

If you want a passive 4 string workhorse for gigging then Im not sure. I really think my MIJ 75RI would tale some beating. Saying that I would like to play a top notch Lakland.

I personally doubt whether a boutique bass would impact on my needs.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Mr Fudge

[bubinga5]

You get what you pay for...Laklands Fenders etc are great basses..But you can bet Celinder's , MTD's etc are alot better, depending if you like them of course..

[OldGit]

Yes if you get the right boutique bass for your needs.
Those needs may well include "I want to wear something that I know is really special and made for me and which looks gorgeous"

It's certainly not all about playability and tone etc. ..

My Shuker 5 string Precision was about the same money as a Stingray 5 at the time. I've yet to A-B it with a Fender P5 but (Sorry, Paul ) I suspect a hand built instrument made by a very experienced and skilled luthier for a specific customer will always beat a production line bass of the same type, when judged by its owner

and I got side LED's

[Rich]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='530402' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:26 AM']I don't know Robbie's current prices (he certainly deserves to have increased them!) but my RIM cost about the same as a StingRay 5.[/quote]
Ditto my Shuker.
It's another case of horses for courses. Some people will say yes, absolutely, worth every penny. Others will say hell no, my off-the-peg bass does everything I want and more. There is no definitive answer.

[BigRedX]

I don't know of any "off-the-peg" bass that ticks all the boxes for looks, playability and tone for me. Most will be lucky to tick one.

[alexclaber]

Maybe I didn't look hard enough but I've never managed to find a production 36" scale thru-neck 5-string with chambered body, passive electronics and dual Q-Tuner pickups!

Alex

[Doddy]

I've played cheaper that I thought were great and boutique basses that I didn't get on with.
I love my Roscoe and my Tobias,but I still grab one of me Fenders for most gigs.
The quality of instruments is generally very high now and price isn't always an indicator of quality-
It's all a matter of what you want out of an instrument-and in some cases,what you want it to say on the headstock...some people
feel more inspired if they are playing a more 'exclusive' brand.

[leschirons]

I think a lot of all this is down to preference and set-up. By way of comparison, yesterday, on the way back home, we stopped by a huge guitar shop near Poitiers. I'm after an electro acoustic with no particular budget in mind. If it feels perfect at the nut and sounds good, that would be the one for me.

Like most purchases, I'm attracted by the visual aspect at first, then all the other issues. Maybe like most, I will not buy the best sounding / constructed / playable bass or guitar if it's ugly (to me)

I picked up and played a €400 Yamaha, used €500 Alvarez, a new €800 Martin and a €2,000 Taylor. The Alvarez won hands down. I guess the point of this is make sure you check out all the non boutique stuff as well as there is some seriously great stuff out there for not a lot of money. I could see the Taylor losing 25% of it's value straight away. If it's the same for the Alvarez, it's not too much of a problem.

[Pete Academy]

I must admit, some basses go beyond boutique. Ritter basses seem like works of art. I'd still love one, though!

[urb]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='530558' date='Jul 2 2009, 01:11 PM']I don't know of any "off-the-peg" bass that ticks all the boxes for looks, playability and tone for me. Most will be lucky to tick one.[/quote]

That's exactly why I play boutique basses, and the only ones that have matched my Sei's playabilty and tone were... other boutique basses. I use the "great chef" analogy, it's not the ingredients you use it's what you do with them, and each chef has their own special recipes from simple, but great, ingredients. Therefore paying for one of these world class chefs (luthiers) to cook up a personlised meal for you is pretty special, and the taste (tone, looks + playability) will last a lifetime.

You dig?

Mike

[7string]

Yes, boutique basses are worth the money.

Personally, I think a small part of the price gets you better hardware and raw materials. The bigger part of the increased cost is taken by the design and (most importantly) the time that is taken on each stage of the build. The time allows a greater attention to detail and the ability to redo a stage of the build if it's not 100%.

[Tait]

depends on how much really. i'd happily spend up to maybe £2000 on a boutique bass (if i had the cash ), but i wouldn't pay some of the silly prices you hear about, because i honestly don't think any bass could be worth that much.

[4000]

They are if they're worth it to you (haven't we had this thread before?). Bear in mind spending the money doesn't mean you'll get the best bass ever, because the best bass ever (as with many things in life) may not be quite what you expected. If you have a very fixed idea of what works for you then you may get close to your ideal, certainly nearer than anything else out there, but by the same token because every instrument sounds different you still might not get quite what you were expecting however much you spend. I love boutique basses, have owned quite a few and played dozens, but my favourite sounding bass that I've ever played is still my '72 Ric, which cost me £490 in 1993. I've owned basses that have cost in excess of £3.5k, but that's still the one for me.

Edited July 2, 2009 by 4000

[OldGit]

On the BGM thread Tait said
"i should've clarified. what I meant was that you could get a £1500 Shuker and make it sound fantastic, and yeah, the £3000 fodera may sound "better", but who will notice the difference, really? "

The answer is I would, if I was playing it.
That extra is all for the player, not the listener.

[Tait]

[quote name='OldGit' post='531233' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:19 PM']On the BGM thread Tait said
"i should've clarified. what I meant was that you could get a £1500 Shuker and make it sound fantastic, and yeah, the £3000 fodera may sound "better", but who will notice the difference, really? "

The answer is I would, if I was playing it.
That extra is all for the player, not the listener.[/quote]

i guess, but is it really worth it? don't we make music so that others can listen to it? whats the point in spending an extra £1500 when none of the listeners will notice the difference, really?

i dont know, i understand your point, and its natural for a player to want to sound their best, even if no one else is going to notice, but i just don't see that its worth the silly prices some pay for a boutique bass, to sound that little bit better when no one other than the person playing it is going to tell the difference. especially as i see the point of making music to be solely to please the listeners, i see music as entertainment. but i know others see music as much more than that, and i guess it may be more important to them, but even then i think its difficult to imagine that i could ever spend that much on a bass.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Tait' post='531247' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:38 PM']i guess, but is it really worth it? don't we make music so that others can listen to it? whats the point in spending an extra £1500 when none of the listeners will notice the difference, really?

i dont know,[b] i understand your point,[/b] and its natural for a player to want to sound their best, even if no one else is going to notice, but i just don't see that its worth the silly prices some pay for a boutique bass, to sound that little bit better when no one other than the person playing it is going to tell the difference. especially as i see the point of making music to be solely to please the listeners, i see music as entertainment. but i know others see music as much more than that, and i guess it may be more important to them, but even then i think its difficult to imagine that i could ever spend that much on a bass.[/quote]


I keep saying it: there's a million other factors to choosing and instrument apart from the sound of it.

[birdy]

I think they are worth the money. All of the high end basses I have owned have been exceptional quality instruments and I am not sure why I sold half of them.

How expensive something in depends on your income and outgoings ultimately. If you are unempleyed then £500 is a lot of money to spend on a bass whereas if you have a top job in the city you could maybe earn the £3500 for a Fodera in a week or two.

Bass is my main hobby and I pay for all my gear from gigging so if I drop £3500 on a bass so what as long as I want it and don't go into debt. If I was into speedboats or motorbikes etc I would spend way more money.

Certainly cheaper basses can get the job done very well but you do generally get what you pay for.

[birdy]

[quote name='Tait' post='531247' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:38 PM']i guess, but is it really worth it? don't we make music so that others can listen to it? whats the point in spending an extra £1500 when none of the listeners will notice the difference, really?

i dont know, i understand your point, and its natural for a player to want to sound their best, even if no one else is going to notice, but i just don't see that its worth the silly prices some pay for a boutique bass, to sound that little bit better when no one other than the person playing it is going to tell the difference. especially as i see the point of making music to be solely to please the listeners, i see music as entertainment. but i know others see music as much more than that, and i guess it may be more important to them, but even then i think its difficult to imagine that i could ever spend that much on a bass.[/quote]

My experience is it's not just the sound. When you find a great great bass for you personally then everything about the way it balances, feels in your hands, responds to your touch is as you would want. It's irrelevant whether anyone else knows as long as I smile every time I pick up that bass in my opinion.
Music is for yourself as well as the listeners in my opinion.

[Tait]

[quote name='OldGit' post='531252' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:42 PM']I keep saying it: there's a million other factors to choosing and instrument apart from the sound of it.[/quote]

ahh, it seems i didn't understand your point at all then!

true, the playability is another factor, but tbh i pity you if you can't get along with anything thats out there. and ok, maybe you can get along with whats out there, but these expensive boutique basses are nicer in your eyes, but it leads back to the original question, is it worth it? i wouldn't have thought so. if you like a stingray neck for example, im sure jon shuker or RIM basses (as the two cheaper examples of boutique basses given earlier) would make a bass with a stingray neck, with a much better build quality than a stingray, and it can make any sound you like, if you want it to sound like a jazz, i'm fairly sure jons good at making basses sound like jazzes, or precisions, or have whatever tone you want them to have. most of the cheaper boutique bass builders are good at making necks how you ask them to, so yes, maybe a £3000 bass might end up with a nicer neck than a £1500 one, but if the £1500 bass is playable and has a nice neck anyway, is it really worth it for that neck thats a little nicer?

i suppose i'm arguing pretty much the same as i argued for sound, that if a £1500 bass is nice, but a £3000 bass is nicer, whether that be for sound, playability, build quality, looks, anything really, i personally wouldn't be able to justify all the extra money that some people play for a "nicer" bass when you could pay much less for a "nice" bass. i don't think i'm making my point very well, i have a tendacy to ramble a lot, but i hope im making my point.

really it doesnt matter what i think, what you think, what anyone thinks except the person buying the bass. if they think the extra money is worth the extra quality, then thats fine by me. i don't think i could ever spend much more than £2000 on a boutique bass though, when i can get a perfectly nice shuker for less.