Gig cab help...

[Dudgeman]

I've never really had an issue hearing myself on stage. I have some monster cabs that I have pretty much retired as they are too big/heavy for the car and most venues. I created a Frankenstein 2no...2 X10 cabs all housed in an old Ashdown  ABM 4 x 10 cabinet and for pubs etc it works really well. It has 4 neo celestion speakers ..no problem with phase and it's so light and compact compared to my Marshall DBS cabs.  

I play in a rock/metal covers band but on Friday we giggled a local venue. I had my amp (crown xls 1500i running in two channel mode) flat out..dimed. my preamp pedals on the floor were running pretty hot and the floor wedge had run out of headroom.....and I couldn't hear what I was playing clearly... .the speakers were crying...despite their rating...300w each. They are pretty efficient. 

 

The whole thing was loud enough.... Just couldn't get the clarity out of the cab. At sound check I was running the system at about 75% and it sounded amazing..( normally does) but once the rest had got going I had to turn it up just to hear. 

 

I'm not a fan of in ears... I have them but trying to avoid them. I'm looking for speaker suggestions with enough Headroom that can deal with this. 

 

If you need more specs of my rig happy to get them. 

 

Anyone got any suggestions.... I told the two guitarists and drummer to turn down but they ignored me..😂

 

Cheers

 

 

[chris_b]

Check out Barefaced cabs.

 

https://barefacedaudio.com/

 

Email the guys and explain your situation and you'll get good advice, about Barefaced obviously, but you can kill both guitarists with the right BF cab(s).

 

ps

Sounds like your next purchase should also be a good set of moulded ear plugs. I use ACS. IMO they are the best. Do a search on Basschat for ACS.

 

https://acscustom.com

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If this hasn't been a problem in the past then it wasn't your gear, it was the room, although a 4x10 arrangement doesn't help. You'd be better served with a pair of 2x10, stacked vertical, to get the upper drivers closer to ear level. At the very least your 4x10 should be tilted back and/or elevated, otherwise the directional mids that are the source of clarity are passing by you unheard. 

[Lozz196]

As with most of these queries Bill is the one with the knowledge making a good point, if the gear has been ok everywhere else then it’s venue issues. As well as you would need to adjust to the room so would the others, sounds like little co-operation there.

[Dudgeman]

Cheers Bill.....Ironically I did have the cab tilted on a massive wedge...I'd never done that before. I have thought about 2 x 10 stacked vertically just need some high headroom drivers. The sound guy did say that the drummers double bass drum set up sucked all the mids out... He was super helpful but he did all he could. 

[Dudgeman]

11 hours ago, chris_b said:

Check out Barefaced cabs.

 

https://barefacedaudio.com/

 

Email the guys and explain your situation and you'll get good advice, about Barefaced obviously, but you can kill both guitarists with the right BF cab(s).

 

ps

Sounds like your next purchase should also be a good set of moulded ear plugs. I use ACS. IMO they are the best. Do a search on Basschat for ACS.

 

https://acscustom.com

Hi Chris 

Thanks. I have looked a BF cabs before but frankly I don't get paid enough gigging to justify the cost of two cabs. I have looked into the construct of their cabs as I am ( or was) a joiner so could easily make them but I know how much time and effort they have gone to to perfect their design...wouldn't feel right making copies. 

 

I do have iems and maybe I will have to go back to using them... I toured for years with them but really prefer to have on stage sound... I just feel more 'alive' on stage without them. 

 

I might speak to the guys at Bare faced and see what they can do. 

[bassbiscuits]

Just a thought but check the specs on your Ashdown 4x10 - namely what the frequency response is. An open E is 40hz, so speakers that don’t go down to frequencies as low as that might sound a bit lacking. 
 

Also, SPL sensitivity of speakers is a better guide of how efficient they are than handling power. 
 

In terms of the angled / stacked speaker cabs, I’d have to disagree in my experience. The only times I’ve done that I’ve hated the sound - too harsh and right behind my head. You might find it works, but if your cab and amp are capable then it shouldn’t be the difference between heating yourself or not. 
 

If it’s a one-off problem it could be the room - some rooms just sound  horrible.

 

In terms of Barefaced cabs, you might find they're your cup of tea or not. They are very light, loud and efficient. But they respond like PA speakers  (full range flat response) rather than bass speakers. Excellent if you want perfect clarity of whatever sound you’re putting in.
 

Less good if (like me) you rely on the way the bass speakers respond as part of your overall sound. 

Just my opinions obviously, and I’m sure plenty would disagree with them. 
 

Edit - Barefaced newer 10s stuff is apparently more vintage voiced than older ones, so my opinion may be out of date as well as questionable….

Edited 28 minutes ago by bassbiscuits

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 minutes ago, bassbiscuits said:

Just a thought but check the specs on your Ashdown 4x10 - namely what the frequency response is. An open E is 40hz, so speakers that don’t go down to frequencies as low as that might sound a bit lacking. 
Just my opinions obviously, and I’m sure plenty would disagree with them. 

A few items of disagreement. First off, he loaded that cab with replacement Celestions, so what the frequency response is one cannot say. Second, most of the power with electric bass is in the 2nd and 3rd harmonics, so when you play a 41 Hz open E what's mainly there is 82 and 123 Hz. By and large a speaker f3 of 50 Hz is sufficient, even for drop tuning. The SVT 810 f3 is 58 Hz. And lastly where hearing yourself is concerned that's mainly in the upper midbass through the midrange, roughly 200 Hz to 2kHz. As for "In terms of the angled / stacked speaker cabs, I’d have to disagree in my experience. The only times I’ve done that I’ve hated the sound - too harsh and right behind my head." when you aim the cab at your head rather than your calves you hear what the audience hears. If you don't like what you hear neither will they. The EQ should be set so that it sounds good on the speaker axis, not 30 degrees or more off axis. To remove the room from the equation I always walk out onto the dance floor for sound check, adjusting the EQ so that it sounds good there. If that results in less than optimal tone on stage I live with it, I'm playing for their enjoyment, not my own. 

[Dan Dare]

2 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

To remove the room from the equation I always walk out onto the dance floor for sound check, adjusting the EQ so that it sounds good there. If that results in less than optimal tone on stage I live with it, I'm playing for their enjoyment, not my own. 

 

This. The sound we like - the one we set at home when playing at modest volume - is often not the one that works best in the room. The classic mid-scooped bass tone with a touch of low end lift that sounds so good in the lounge or showroom often sounds like mud in a real venue when the rest of the band is playing.

[bassbiscuits]

8 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

This. The sound we like - the one we set at home when playing at modest volume - is often not the one that works best in the room. The classic mid-scooped bass tone with a touch of low end lift that sounds so good in the lounge or showroom often sounds like mud in a real venue when the rest of the band is playing.

Oh absolutely. The sound you want onstage is what works with a band and cuts through.