Different Venue every week .... is EQing the FOH "Mains" rather than the individual inputs a shortcut ..... or heresy?

[Pirellithecat]

Been tinkering with this ...... 
Have a fairly good mix sorted out where the Kick and Bass complement each other, the Vocals aren't too harsh, and guitars pretty much work with the rest. 
And then we play another busy pub, with its unique boomy resonance or shrill upper frequency peaks. 
So why not use the "Baseline" mix and EQ the Main PA speakers to take account of the room's "specialness"? 
Particularly important where time is tight and a sound check is a one song opportunity....... 
Using GEQ rather than PEQ on the mains, and adjusting sub volume  as necessary. 

Is this Heresay or potentially a good idea? 
 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Since the room affects everything in the PA you want to adjust the GEQ. 

[Downunderwonder]

If more PA was ever eq'd for the room we would have less rubbish sound.

[Pirellithecat]

Before I bought the CQ18T,  I borrowed a pair of Peavey Graphic Equalisers, for a big gig, in a notoriously difficult venue.  Worked a treat, as I could tweak the settings whilst the first band were on.  By the time we were on everything sounded good.   But far too much hassle for routine gigs where I'm playing and trying to do the sound.  With the CQ18T, it's easier to do, but as few people seem to do it I thought there might be a good reason not too .   I'll percevere!!

[Phil Starr]

16 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

Been tinkering with this ...... 
Have a fairly good mix sorted out where the Kick and Bass complement each other, the Vocals aren't too harsh, and guitars pretty much work with the rest. 
And then we play another busy pub, with its unique boomy resonance or shrill upper frequency peaks. 
So why not use the "Baseline" mix and EQ the Main PA speakers to take account of the room's "specialness"? 
Particularly important where time is tight and a sound check is a one song opportunity....... 
Using GEQ rather than PEQ on the mains, and adjusting sub volume  as necessary. 

Is this Heresay or potentially a good idea? 
 

It's standard practice and you shouldn't really be doing anything else. the only problem is when a substantial part of your sound is coming from backline. Obviously if you have set up your bass amp on an open stage and you are forced into a corner at the next gig then cutting the boom on the PA won't alter the boom from your amp. If you are operating without back line then you lose that problem.

[Pirellithecat]

Sadly a fair bit of "noise" comes from loud drums and backline.

But it's a journey ...... Bass now quieter on stage, as is 2nd guitar, as these are " augmented" via the PA.  We now use triggers on the drums so there are fewer mics on stage which helps a little too.  But, there are things you can affect and things you can't ..... Reports from fellow musicians suggest we sound great, so perhaps I'm stressing unnecessarily 🤣

[JPJ]

I do this all the time. Our channel settings have been dialled in on the XR18 for a few years now, so I use the six band semi-parametric eq on the mains to eq to the room. I also save scenes for each venue so I have the last gig at that venue as a starting point. My only other comment is subtractive eq is much more preferable to additive. 

[Pirellithecat]

Excellent - thanks all! 
I'll up my "Mains" EQing from now on! 
Cheers!

[Chienmortbb]

If you use a huge rig, you will likely use either SMART or Open Sound Meter before the gig to set up your baseline  sound d. This is effectively tuning to the venue. 
 

As working musicians we do not have that luxury but in my opinion you still have all your channels, EQ, Dynamics and effects set up in advance, tweaking slightly the main output for conditions at the venue. Of course if you set up in an empty venue you will need to tweak once full of mobile acoustic absorbers,  (people) arrive en masse. 

[Owen]

4 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

Sadly a fair bit of "noise" comes from loud drums and backline.

But it's a journey ...... 

A euphemism if I heard one

[Pirellithecat]

10 minutes ago, Owen said:

A euphemism if I heard one

You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment 🫢🤣🤣

[Jack]

I've since learned about PA stuff to actually think he's a bit 'out there' on some points* but in the early days I learned loads from Dave Rat's youtube channel and RHCP tour blog. One of the things that stuck with me was "channel eq for the actual channel and mains eq for the room, you shouldn't really need to move the channel eq much from room to room". 

 

* I mean, I don't feel qualified to say he's wrong. He's mixed the biggest bands and the biggest venues all over the world and I ... haven't. But the dude is a little loopy. 

 

[Pirellithecat]

As I've only had a digital mixer for a relatively short time, EQing "the Room" hasn't been an option without the complexity of additional Graphic equalisers (and for pub gigs they're just impractical).  Until now I've been trying to get the channel EQ's and Monitor EQ's sorted and have only had a basic EQ on the "Mains" to deal with the two things that are always an issue (harsh peak at 1.8kHz and HPF low end).  Now I need to move forward and concentrate on the "room" ....... which should irritate the band less and be relatively simple (🤣).  

[Steve Browning]

It's a shame there's no automated method on the XR18. Many years ago I was rehearsing in a terrible sounding room. They sent along someone with a Peavey unit.  It may have been called an autograph. It put out white noise and a mic took sound samples around the room. The unit analysed the samples and set the eq for the room. It rectified the sound immediately. 

 

This was more than 30 years ago so imagine it would be pretty straightforward to incorporate. 

[JPJ]

11 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

It's a shame there's no automated method on the XR18. Many years ago I was rehearsing in a terrible sounding room. They sent along someone with a Peavey unit.  It may have been called an autograph. It put out white noise and a mic took sound samples around the room. The unit analysed the samples and set the eq for the room. It rectified the sound immediately. 

 

This was more than 30 years ago so imagine it would be pretty straightforward to incorporate. 

Not in theXR18, but I use a dBX DriveRack that can auto eq the PA in a room using pink noise, however you can’t really do this at your average pub gig as I don’t think many landlords would be happy with you pinking their bar full of punters whilst you move a reference mic around the three positions the DriveRack requests. I’ve used it to set up a user presets (one with subs either side, one with centre subs, one with no subs) that cover our usual setups, then select the correct one as a starting point, and correct for any room imbalances using the main eq and my ears.

[Downunderwonder]

Get yourself a reference track that you know well. It should have plenty of bass and vocals and cynbals.

 

Play that to the pub and make it sound good.

 

You only have to do it once.