Would someone's extreme political views prevent you being in a band with them, or working with them?

[Wombat]

Bringing their own type of honey!

Edited 5 hours ago by Wombat
Typo

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, knirirr said:

When I wrote that I was paraphrasing something someone said to me at a recent jam: "I was at so-and-so's gig during the week and he made another of his unfunny woke jokes [eyeroll]". I should perhaps have quoted the phrase, as you have done. 
What I heard was an announcement between tunes which was something like (from memory): "There's this bloke I know who says he's a woman now! What's anyone supposed to do about that sort of thing, then, eh? What am I even supposed to call him? Him? Her? It?" 

I got the impression this was supposed to be amusing, but didn't find it so.

 

I wouldn't describe it as woke either, the exact opposite in fact. I'm totally woke and I use the appropriate pronouns (ie the ones they want used) for my trans friends, relatives, and bandmates (of which I have at least one of each).

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, Misdee said:

This is exactly the kind of self-righteous indignation I'm talking about. So now the benchmark of racism is non-adherence to the doctrine of the Guardian newspaper..

 

It's not within your gift to decide on my behalf what is and what isn't racist. I'll make my own mind up, thank you very much. I'm perfectly capable of doing so. And if I did enjoy the company of people who didn't fulfil your expectations of what's acceptable, it really wouldnt be any of your business. Moreover, you do me a great disservice in implying that by associating with people who have whatever opinions that I would be endorsing those views or be susceptible to them.

 

You were the one who had a dig at Guardian readers while ignoring the unpleasantness of Daily Mail readers.

 

I did not imply that you endorsed the opinions of others at all. Still, if you want to imagine that I did, go ahead. I shall give your further contributions the attention that they deserve.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, prowla said:

...and your terms "average" and "reasonable" are weighted by your own definitions.

So, my point is that far from being definitive, the term in question is very subjective and is not defined in law.

An example of the subjectiveness is this university's definition (https://www.lboro.ac.uk/internal/online-reporting/looking-for-information/racism/), which states that racism can only be performed by a "dominant" group against a "minoritized" (sic) group - that's not what the Equality Act says (I think!).

 

That's obviously true. After all, who could possibly say that the apartheid regime in South Africa was racist?

[ghostwheel]

4 hours ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

Which is why it’s important that racism is defined officially and legislatively and not left to individuals to arbitrate for themselves. 

I wonder what would Mr Orwell have said about it, had he still been alive. 

[tegs07]

So it all boils down to the daily mail vs the guardian, corbyn vs reform. 

 

the polarisation defined and the clock ticks.

 

I hope i can escape before the main event because the challenges are enormous and those available to tackle them are woefully unprepared and living in different realities. they are setting up stalls and courting an electorate motivated by differing ideologies that have nothing in common apart from neither of them have anything to do with the crisis at hand.

 

probably best to put the thread to bed as it’s circling an inevitable drain. bit like the uk financial system.

Edited 4 hours ago by tegs07

[fretmeister]

15 minutes ago, ghostwheel said:

I wonder what would Mr Orwell have said about it, had he still been alive. 

 

I think his opinion would be based on whether the definition and indeed those who were defining it had the intent to protect downtrodden groups or protect those doing the treading.

[prowla]

2 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

I think his opinion would be based on whether the definition and indeed those who were defining it had the intent to protect downtrodden groups or protect those doing the treading.

And whether they had two or four legs.

[Wombat]

Aye, it’s all baaaarking!

[knirirr]

41 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I wouldn't describe it as woke either, the exact opposite in fact. 

 

Indeed; the "woke jokes" in this case, as far as I can tell, remarks about the woke things this chap doesn't like rather than jokes that are woke. 

[PaulWarning]

would I be in a band with someone who voted Reform? yes, would I be in a band with someone who voted for Corbyn? yes.

Do I think that people with a penis should use ladies toilets? no, do I think people who are born male should be able to compete against people who were born female in sport? no.

But could I be in a band with someone who thinks they should, yes.

Edited 3 hours ago by PaulWarning

[Stub Mandrel]

I want to be friends with my band mates, and that means mutual respect. One of my bandmates is quite young and of mixed east-Asian heritage. He's not afraid to call out racism and do a bloody good job of it.

 

Did have one odd situation... someone who was very performatively 'politically correct' - wouldn't do 'Hey Joe' as it's 'misogynistic'. Irony being that they were the sort of person who gave off a sort off creepy vibe at odds with their professed stance... they didn't last.

 

I am considering getting a 'Stop the Scrotes' t-shirt. I'll let you decide who I think the scrotes are... 

[Bassassin]

45 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

So it all boils down to the daily mail vs the guardian, corbyn vs reform. 

 

For fear of it getting a bit specifically political (but not in a partisan way), them's the consequences of a polarising system, & the New Bosses being essentially the same as the Old Bosses.

 

Fwiw I'd contend the Guardian hates Corbyn & whatever his new party's called (and probably the new ultra-left Greens) just as much, if not more than they hate Reform.

[WinterMute]

I've read this thread with interest, and not a little disquiet...

 

In a band with bigots? No.

 

None in my life either, and that includes family, they get called out and told why they're being cut loose and then they go.

 

It's a hard and fast rule.

 

I'm minded of the current meme "You're looking for the tolerant left? They're down the hall, this is the f*ck off and die you f*sc*st m*th*rf*ck*r left."

 

Carl Popper coined the Paradox of Tolerance, in that if a tolerant group tolerates an intolerant group, the tolerant will be disrupted and destroyed by the intolerant. Fascism, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, the list goes on. These are not tolerant people and should be confronted and combated wherever they appear.

 

Fascism in particular, with it's rising profile again across the world, is not to be tolerated or debated, it is to be fought and destroyed. We learned that a lesson in 1939-45 and it cost millions of lives, that we are having to deal with it again simply means nearly all the people who remember the bitter evil of Nazism are now dead, and the people in power are making that same mistakes of appeasement or co-operation.

 

"No politics" is a great rule for a forum of bassists, so let's get back to discussing how many strings is the right number, and what they should be made of... Tonewoods anyone?

[tegs07]

Just now, WinterMute said:

I've read this thread with interest, and not a little disquiet...

 

In a band with bigots? No.

 

None in my life either, and that includes family, they get called out and told why they're being cut loose and then they go.

 

It's a hard and fast rule.

 

I'm minded of the current meme "You're looking for the tolerant left? They're down the hall, this is the f*ck off and die you f*sc*st m*th*rf*ck*r left."

 

Carl Popper coined the Paradox of Tolerance, in that if a tolerant group tolerates an intolerant group, the tolerant will be disrupted and destroyed by the intolerant. Fascism, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, the list goes on. These are not tolerant people and should be confronted and combated wherever they appear.

 

Fascism in particular, with it's rising profile again across the world, is not to be tolerated or debated, it is to be fought and destroyed. We learned that a lesson in 1939-45 and it cost millions of lives, that we are having to deal with it again simply means nearly all the people who remember the bitter evil of Nazism are now dead, and the people in power are making that same mistakes of appeasement or co-operation.

 

"No politics" is a great rule for a forum of bassists, so let's get back to discussing how many strings is the right number, and what they should be made of... Tonewoods anyone?

I certainly don’t expect that all demographics or socioeconomic groups would have the same views as I have. That would be both exhausting and depressing.

[WinterMute]

8 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I certainly don’t expect that all demographics or socioeconomic groups would have the same views as I have. That would be both exhausting and depressing.

 

No, of course not, that's what makes the world interesting, but certain demographics want nothing more than to control and destroy anyone who doesn't agree with them, those f*ck*rs need a slap. With a Tomahawk.

[tegs07]

3 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

 

No, of course not, that's what makes the world interesting, but certain demographics want nothing more than to control and destroy anyone who doesn't agree with them, those f*ck*rs need a slap. With a Tomahawk.

But would you seriously fall out with family members for having different opinions? 

 

Oi Grandad you may be 87, an ex steelworker who saw action during the Suez Crisis but frankly your views on gender identity and pronouns are unacceptable?

[WinterMute]

2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

But would you seriously fall out with family members for having different opinions? 

 

Oi Grandad you may be 87, an ex steelworker who saw action during the Suez Crisis but frankly your views on gender identity and pronouns are unacceptable?

 

This is a clear straw man argument and I think you play 4 string basses without ever questioning why.

Edited 2 hours ago by WinterMute

[tegs07]

Just now, WinterMute said:

 

This is a clear straw man argument and I think you pay 4 string basses without ever questioning why.

Really? Pretty much all of my family over 70 have views I don’t agree with. I certainly wouldn’t fall out with them because they are going to vote for Farrage. I think they are delusional buffoons living under the illusion life was better in the 1950s but I bear them no malice whatsoever.

[WinterMute]

Not everyone whose planning on voting Reform is a racist bigot, but all the racist bigots will likely vote Reform.

 

I don't care if it is cuddly Uncle Albert, if he's a racist bigot who is incapable of changing his mind, he can f*ck off.

Edited 2 hours ago by WinterMute

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

Not everyone whose planning on voting Reform is a racist bigot, but all the racist bigots will likely vote Reform.

 

I don't care if it is cuddly Uncle Albert, if he's a racist bigot who is incapable of changing his mind, he can f*ck off.

I frequently visibly wince at large gatherings of the oldies. I suspect that you would explode.

 

I have to remind myself that they grew up in a different time and place and even the most enlightened and educated amongst them use terms that are now outdated and not appropriate.

 

They are not evil people though.

Edited 2 hours ago by tegs07

[Jackroadkill]

Can we just agree that punching downwards isn't a good thing?

[Dankology]

9 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

Not everyone whose planning on voting Reform is a racist bigot, but all the racist bigots will likely vote Reform.

 

I don't care if it is cuddly Uncle Albert, if he's a racist bigot who is incapable of changing his mind, he can f*ck off.

 

Also, if he's intending to vote in a party intent on dismantling much of what makes us great on the basis of having unquestioningly accepted a load of fear-mongering inaccuracies he's going to be called out on it.

 

Because it's not about "differing opinions" - it's about cynical populism being used to serve the interests of the few rather than the many. And that's why it has to be talked about: if grandad thinks we're being overrun with imported paedophiles who are being handed Ipods as they enter their luxury hotels, surely he needs to be disabused of this. If he genuinely thinks people are inferior by accident of place of birth then he's having Christmas dinner elsewhere.

Edited 2 hours ago by Dankology

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, Jackroadkill said:

Can we just agree that punching downwards isn't a good thing?

 

Very nicely put! 

[kiat]

If this thread does not harm relationships between any number of basschatters, it'll be a miracle.