Making keys and bass work together

[Lozz196]

Or have a change of thought on the role the bass takes in this particular band, moving to a more supportive instrument laying down a rock solid foundation with the drums. 
 

A band I really like that had keys was Rainbow and the various bassists although they played interesting lines they were def supporting the rest of the band really well.

Edited 2 hours ago by Lozz196

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Wrong on several counts, I'm afraid.

 

I don’t follow your post, but no need to be sorry, you are welcome to your option of course.

You finish off with a reference that I first made, saying it can be done with some thought. Well isn't that what it's all about, working together?

 

I NEVER said the bass player should change a set in stone part to accommodate the keyboard player, but if a keyboard part is written for two hands then they need to be aware of it, and again, work together. 

Ive played keys in a band where the bass player never bothered to really work out the songs, and would clash with not only me, but the guitarist as well as his notes were off. Are we supposed to stop playing anything in the low register to accommodate this?

 

Also having the bass player use a tone that works with keys is definitely a step forward. Too many bass players use a muddy tone that leaves no definition in the low end. Even kick drums can get smothered by the wrong tone. Then there are the other lot that insisting on playing all over the spectrum.

 

As for 'no keyboard part is set in stone', that made me laugh. Again, blanket statements make no sense. There are 1000's of keyboard based songs where the keyboards are very much set in stone. Two we are doing at the moment are You do something to me and Angels. Are you seriously suggestion I change the parts because they are tow hand songs?

 

I totally get the playing at home is different argument though. when I switched to keys and looked for some tutorials for some songs it was all piano stuff, no help for learning the actual songs for a band. That I totally get, but not all keyboard players do that and my argument is more against blanket statements. 

 

 

 

[gjones]

Piano/keys are good to have in a band but there has to be discipline to stop the bottom end getting muddy. I would recommend listening to Fleetwood Mac to see how they incorporate both bass and piano, without stepping on each others toes.

[Dan Dare]

10 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I don’t follow your post, but no need to be sorry, you are welcome to your option of course.

You finish off with a reference that I first made, saying it can be done with some thought. Well isn't that what it's all about, working together?

 

I NEVER said the bass player should change a set in stone part to accommodate the keyboard player, but if a keyboard part is written for two hands then they need to be aware of it, and again, work together. 

Ive played keys in a band where the bass player never bothered to really work out the songs, and would clash with not only me, but the guitarist as well as his notes were off. Are we supposed to stop playing anything in the low register to accommodate this?

 

Also having the bass player use a tone that works with keys is definitely a step forward. Too many bass players use a muddy tone that leaves no definition in the low end. Even kick drums can get smothered by the wrong tone. Then there are the other lot that insisting on playing all over the spectrum.

 

As for 'no keyboard part is set in stone', that made me laugh. Again, blanket statements make no sense. There are 1000's of keyboard based songs where the keyboards are very much set in stone. Two we are doing at the moment are You do something to me and Angels. Are you seriously suggestion I change the parts because they are tow hand songs?

 

I totally get the playing at home is different argument though. when I switched to keys and looked for some tutorials for some songs it was all piano stuff, no help for learning the actual songs for a band. That I totally get, but not all keyboard players do that and my argument is more against blanket statements.

 

I'm not worried. It's good of you to allow me my own opinion.

 

I see you're a keyboard player. Enough said, really. I'll just reiterate that there is a world of difference between playing solo piano, organ or whatever, where you need to provide a melody, chordal accompaniment and bass part, and playing in a band context, where nobody is the centre of the universe. 

[dave_bass5]

3 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

I'm not worried. It's good of you to allow me my own opinion.

 

I see you're a keyboard player. Enough said, really. I'll just reiterate that there is a world of difference between playing solo piano, organ or whatever, where you need to provide a melody, chordal accompaniment and bass part, and playing in a band context, where nobody is the centre of the universe. 

I dont disagree with any of that, but that's not what ive been posting about. 

[deepbass5]

4 hours ago, SimonK said:

Keyboardists who play a lot on their own get used to playing all the basslines with their left hand so stopping them doing this in a band situation is a challenge. 

 

Exactly this. 

Some know what their roll should be in a band situation others do not.  For me they should cover Keyboard based tunes as a Pianist and everyone else steps back. In other pieces they should be handling the Brass, Sax and string parts. 

[TimR]

The keys and bass need to meet separately to work on an arrangement that works for both of them.

 

With experienced musicians this can be done on the fly as they both will adjust using their ears. 

 

 

Edited 7 minutes ago by TimR