Upright pianos

[lksmks792]

My 20 year old trusty digital Roland died this morning after many hours of suffering my enthusiasm.

I've long decided its replacement would be a 'proper' upright, but I've never really thought about which make or even the cost of one. Turns out (who would've thought) there's a lot between different makes and models.

I'm not a classical or technically proficient piano player by any stretch of the imagination but I do play a lot (accompanying myself or my wife singing). Therefore I'm not looking for anything 'pro' by any means, a decent base model would do. Are there any recommendations? Ideally I'm looking to buy second hand (I'm in Belgium so recommendations of stores in the UK aren't very useful). Thank you very much!

Edited June 26 by lksmks792
Typo in the title

[Rosie C]

If I was buying a new upright now I'd probably start my search with a Yamaha B2. 

 

I've just sold my Kawai digital. I liked that it could do harpsichord, and I liked not having to heat the room or pay for tuning, but it lacked the soul of a 'real' piano.

 

 

[BigRedX]

I can't help you with piano recommendations, but bear in mind the following:

 

1. There is no volume control or headphones socket on an upright piano, and when played enthusiastically they can be loud. May be a concern if you have neighbours with adjoining walls.

 

2. They are big and heavy. check that you'll be able to get it into whichever room you want to have it in. I had to turn down the family upright piano because it wouldn't fit around the corner at the top of the stairs, assuming I would have been able to get it up the stairs in the first place.

 

3. As has been said you need to factor the annual tuning cost.

 

4. Don't buy anything with a wooden frame. I will never stay in tune in a modern heated house.

 

5. However it should be possible to get something serviceable for free. Here in the UK people can't even give away old upright pianos. So if the situation is similar in Belgium and you are prepared to wait and see what is available you could end up with something nice for the cost of transport and a full service and tune once it installed at your property.

[Rosie C]

8 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

5. However it should be possible to get something serviceable for free. Here in the UK people can't even give away old upright pianos. 

 

This is also my experience. We gave our baby grand for free to a local school. The upright we had before that the guy who delivered the baby grand took it away for free 'as a favour'.

 

 

Edited June 26 by Rosie C

[Skinnyman]

Kawai and Yamaha are about the only two that seem to have any real resale value and even then the depreciation on a new piano is huge. We bought a Kawai K300 a few years ago and it’s a lovely intermediate-level instrument. It does, however, need room for the sound to “blossom” and when we moved house we ended up with it in a smaller room that, no matter how we treated it acoustically, made it painful to play at any volume. 
With hindsight, we should have bought one of the hybrid pianos but in the end we swapped it for a Kawai digital.

The market nowadays seems to be swamped with Chinese pianos that have European-sounding names but no real heritage - I’m sure like most things from China these days they’re fine instruments and I daresay one could get a lightly-used example for a bargain price. 
If I was buying a new piano today, even if I lived in a mansion, I’d go with a Yamaha or Kawai hybrid that allowed silent playing.

[itu]

But it is possible to make a bass from an upright piano! That's possibly the best future for an old acoustic, if the wood is wood, not particleboard. 

 

Like @BigRedX said, think about the tuning. If the piano was left without it for several years, retuning requires several times and some money. 

[chris667]

I think you should go to a dealer. Most privately sold pianos are beyond economical repair.

 

Beyond that, you need to go by the sound. Renting a secondhand piano for a few months could save you a lot of money.

 

It's hard to recommend a particular brand because so many of the piano makers merged and just became badges on pianos that were made in anonymous Asian factories.

 

A venue at a place I play at fairly regularly got rid of their ex-school Knight upright which was nearing the end of its life with a three year old piano which was donated to them. It was scrapped as it was unrepairable. Avoid cheap new uprights.

[chris667]

Also, one other thing.

 

My best mate is a pianist. He has a Bluthner grand in is front room (£95,000 new, and 3 months to build!).

 

I think if he was being honest, he prefers his Kawaii MP11SE. It doesn't have the presence in the room obviously, but he can play things on it that he can't play on his Bluthner. It has a better action and it sounds really, really good.

Edited June 27 by chris667

[BassTractor]

Can't offer direct advice, sorry, but:
Whatever you do: do not jump on the chance of getting a second hand Yamaha U1 or similar without thorough investigation. There's a whole industry out there, sending semi-rotten pianos to Poland or China for new veneer, or importing newly-veneered same from Asia, and the buyer is the victim.
 

Other than that, our own tiny upright came extremely cheap from the local Salvation Army's second-hand shop, and I can honestly say that it has given me more joy than the Steinway and Bösendorfer grands I used to play before. Maybe an idea.
One has to keep in mind that second-hand pianos can be had for peanuts, and not all of them are bad. Look at the seller: if the piano comes from your typical "classical" family, it's probably one that has been well taken care of.
Your choice whether you want to buy in a shop and get it delivered and placed, or wish to organise the move through a specialised piano moving company.

BTW, in addition to our upright, for the money we saved we bought a digital one, and would sometimes even play together on two instruments.
Also handy for the divorce! One each! 😂 (My wife wanted the SA one; I got to keep the Roland.)

 

 

Edited June 29 by BassTractor

[Hellzero]

Hi @lksmks792, I'm in Belgium too, in the deep South part, close to Luxemburg.

 

You could come home if you are in the neighbourhood and try my Casio GP-510 BP, which is an hybrid digital (upright) piano with 3 of the main piano brands sampled: Bechstein, who provided the grand piano mechanism, Steinway and Bösendorfer.

 

I also own a Korg B2 (weighted keys) connected through my computer, to the VSL Synchron Steinway D standalone software and it sounds amazing through my calibrated monitors and headphones too.

 

If you are in the North part, Maene in Gent, and many other places, is the place to go to buy a piano (second hand or new, acoustic, hybrid or fully digital): https://www.maene.be/en_BE/

 

If you want to stick to an acoustic upright, have a look at the Zimmermann brand, owned by Bechstein: https://www.bechstein.com/fr/pianos-droits-et-a-queue/zimmermann/#zimmermann

 

Check the ads there if you're in the North part, and you'll be amazed by the number of acoustic pianos almost given for free: https://www.2dehands.be/l/muziek-en-instrumenten/piano-s/#Language:all-languages|sortBy:PRICE|sortOrder:INCREASING

 

Or here, if you are in the South part: https://www.2ememain.be/l/musique-instruments/pianos/#Language:all-languages|sortBy:PRICE|sortOrder:INCREASING

 

You'll certainly get the same ads on both as it's the same website in the two of the three main Belgian languages.

[lksmks792]

Thanks a lot for all of the info and advice. I've found a local dealer who sells (or leases out) and tunes a lot of the pianos in the region and has both new and second hand options. 

On 28/06/2025 at 19:03, Hellzero said:

Hi @lksmks792, I'm in Belgium too, in the deep South part, close to Luxemburg.

 

You could come home if you are in the neighbourhood and try my Casio GP-510 BP, which is an hybrid digital (upright) piano with 3 of the main piano brands sampled: Bechstein, who provided the grand piano mechanism, Steinway and Bösendorfer.

 

I also own a Korg B2 (weighted keys) connected through my computer, to the VSL Synchron Steinway D standalone software and it sounds amazing through my calibrated monitors and headphones too.

 

If you are in the North part, Maene in Gent, and many other places, is the place to go to buy a piano (second hand or new, acoustic, hybrid or fully digital): https://www.maene.be/en_BE/

 

If you want to stick to an acoustic upright, have a look at the Zimmermann brand, owned by Bechstein: https://www.bechstein.com/fr/pianos-droits-et-a-queue/zimmermann/#zimmermann

 

Check the ads there if you're in the North part, and you'll be amazed by the number of acoustic pianos almost given for free: https://www.2dehands.be/l/muziek-en-instrumenten/piano-s/#Language:all-languages|sortBy:PRICE|sortOrder:INCREASING

 

Or here, if you are in the South part: https://www.2ememain.be/l/musique-instruments/pianos/#Language:all-languages|sortBy:PRICE|sortOrder:INCREASING

 

You'll certainly get the same ads on both as it's the same website in the two of the three main Belgian languages.

Thanks Hellzero! I'm up north (Turnhout) so a quick visit isn't really feasible, but thank you very kindly for the invitation. I'm thinking about visiting Marne as well (I was put off a bit by them being such a 'big name', though that's not necessarily a bad thing). 

Edited June 29 by lksmks792

[Leonard Smalls]

On 26/06/2025 at 18:06, chris667 said:

upright which was nearing the end of its life

Funnily enough my mum's piano is still with us...

Her parents bought it thinking it was new from the makers (Pfeiffer) in 1932. My mum learned to play on it, then did all her practice for LRAM, I did lessons on it, my mum gave lessons on it and recently we decided it needed a good service. So we found a really good piano builder who almost fell over when he saw it!

He spent a quite few hours re-felting, adjusting hammers, sorting out the pedals and putting on a couple of replacement "ivories". It cost us about £400. Turns out it was actually made between 1872-74 and had been sitting in their warehouse for 60 odd years.

And pianoman said it had possibly the best bass he'd ever heard from a piano - as good as a concert Bösendorfer he reckoned. 

So if you can find an oak overstrung Pfeiffer, buy it! And find someone very strong to move it. I've been involved in 6 moves with it so far and 'er's a reet bugger!

[chris667]

The Knight had been a school piano for many years. Sadly it was a long way past economical repair.

 

I would much prefer a 1970s Knight in good condition to a new inexpensive upright.

[Leonard Smalls]

7 minutes ago, chris667 said:

I would much prefer a 1970s Knight in good condition to a new inexpensive upright.

Me too! There's lots of decent old joannas you can get for virtually nowt - old Challens go for pennies if you're lucky and are decent.

I've just looked up our Pfeiffer, looks like they're selling ones similar for over E10000!    https://www.pfeiffer-pianos.com/en/used/pianos

[Count Bassy]

On 26/06/2025 at 12:15, Rosie C said:

If I was buying a new upright now I'd probably start my search with a Yamaha B2. 

 

I've just sold my Kawai digital. I liked that it could do harpsichord, and I liked not having to heat the room or pay for tuning, but it lacked the soul of a 'real' piano.

 

 

Which Kawai digital was it?  My wife (a piano teacher) has a Kawai ES8 (one before the current model) and it sounds and feels great. Note quite like a real one, but very close. (She has a real one (Woodchester) as well)

[Magister Ludi]

Now if this was me (and presuming I was living in Belgium) I would decide first whether to go old school upright or any million combos of electronica.

So, its an old school classy upright to start-and the place to get one is ....... an auction room! seriously they are the same europewide with the dearth of joannas you will easily find something that looks sturdy and has tone.The make is irrelevant at this stage-you will need the services of a pro tuner-he/she will advise more.

and quite obviously,being Belgium,you will need a bar and some form of storeage for cask beer !!! The wife singist is a bonus-as is some belgian chocolate to give to guests....

Sorted.

Magister Ludi

[Rosie C]

16 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

Which Kawai digital was it?  My wife (a piano teacher) has a Kawai ES8 (one before the current model) and it sounds and feels great. Note quite like a real one, but very close. (She has a real one (Woodchester) as well)

 

It's a CS7. Technically I can't fault it - the action and sound is great. 

[Crusoe]

I know nothing about pianos but reading through some of the replies to this goes a long way to explaining why the pianos in church halls often sound bloody awful.

[KingBollock]

About 30 years ago we bought a 120 year old upright labelled as Jackson’s of Coventry (which I have never been able to find anything about). It was overstrung with an iron frame. It sounded nice and worked fine apart from one of the end keys that had been used to repair one of the more central keys.
 

Moving it was an absolute nightmare. It was unbelievably heavy!

 

Unfortunately, when we moved to Wales, 17 years ago, we just couldn’t bring it with us. We ended up having to skip it, which felt like sacrilege.

[Hellzero]

Just in case, I bought the VI Labs Modern D (another Steinway D but this time not an old German one, but a new ... New York version with all the progress done since so many years by Steinway) software today, and apart from a nightmarish download (I ended up using Edge as Chrome was very slow even with a 1 GB connection and giving faults in the RAR file), it's really the best piano sampling software I have ever heard, even better than the VSL Synchron Steinway D that was already excellent.

 

The sound is even more authentic and you can configure so many things that it will take some time to toy with everything, but I've already made my own preset to sound like when you're playing the real deal just sitting in front of the beast.

 

The bass part is so huge and powerful, the mid part of the keyboard sounds like a piano and not a synth, and even more important the higher part where there is no more damping gives a real piano sound, not a toy piano breaking glass tone.

 

It's also working as a standalone.

 

Best buy, so far and not that expensive, but you'll need WinRar as it's the only one working to extract those RAR files...