Legal help knowledge needed - Warranty right on a second hand bass

[triplebass]

Can anybody help with this...

 

i'm in Belgium and would like to know what are my options in claiming warranty for a second hand bass (made in UK) that obviously has a production error. 

I believe EU law covers warranty in this case ("If you buy a second-hand item, the seller usually limits the guarantee to the legal minimum of one year. If he does not do this, you are entitled to a two-year guarantee in accordance with the law.")

 

What is the situation in UK regarding warranty on second hand products? The bass was made in 2024.

 

 

BACKSTORY:

i got a bass in a trade. I noticed a problem with the sound/volume balance when trying it out but i thought it could be solved with a setup or string change. The previous owner played with a compressor so  according to him didn't notice the problem.

I contacted the maker (UK) and was redirected to the PU maker (UK). Had new blades installed, didn't help, as it turns out the pickups used are too small. Weren't supposed to go on a 5 string bass at all according to the PU maker.

Don't know how to approach the maker now. I like the bass and would love to have the problem sorted. And I don't want to drop the bass off to another sucker.

 

Suggestions?

Thanks

 

[fretmeister]

If it was a private sale / trade then you have no rights against the maker.

 

If the second hand item was obtained from a business then you do have some. Your contract is with the business - not suppliers to that business.

So if you got it from a shop they should deal with it - not pass the problem to the pickup makers.

[triplebass]

1 minute ago, fretmeister said:

If it was a private sale / trade then you have no rights against the maker.

 

If the second hand item was obtained from a business then you do have some. Your contract is with the business - not suppliers to that business.

So if you got it from a shop they should deal with it - not pass the problem to the pickup makers.

it was a private trade.

so i have no right even though it's a "hidden deffect"?

My claim would be with the maker of the bass as it seems they installed a PU that shouldn't be there. The bass is perfectly balanced acoustically, but not when plugged in, the B and G have a massive drop in volume.

[M@23]

Have you fed that back to the bass manufacturer, that you’ve been advised by the PU manufacturer that the part isn’t suitable?!

Assuming it isn’t a tiny or brand new operation, and that this PU is a standard option, this must have come up for someone else previously, or in their own testing. How did they land on this particular PU? Must have been some testing. I would start a conversation about it with them, if you’ve not yet done so. 

[Beedster]

9 minutes ago, triplebass said:

it was a private trade.

so i have no right even though it's a "hidden deffect"?

My claim would be with the maker of the bass as it seems they installed a PU that shouldn't be there. The bass is perfectly balanced acoustically, but not when plugged in, the B and G have a massive drop in volume.

 

Ouch, 4-string PUPs on a 5-string bass, that's a pretty amateur design feature.

 

Personally I would just get it sorted, if it was a private deal it's a case of do your due diligence or accept the risk so you can't really go back to the seller now, and if the manufacturer/builder was that inept in the first place I'm not sure I'd want the bass going back to them for a fix.

 

Assuming the PUP cavity will take the correct size 5-string PUP's I'd suck up the cost and replace it/them. At least you can sell the originally installed 4-string PUPs. Good luck

[Beedster]

...why do I get the sense I can guess the maker......?

Edited 23 hours ago by Beedster

[warwickhunt]

In short, as it was a private transaction, you have no warranty or recourse to the manufacturer or the seller.  

 

As has been suggested you could attempt to reach out to the manufacturer and ask for a goodwill gesture of maybe swapping you correct pups for the ones you have installed or possibly to sell you correct pups at a discount.  However, they are under no obligation to do so, hence my approach (were I you) would be very cautious and conciliatory rather than demanding/accusatory.   

[RhythmJunky]

7 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

In short, as it was a private transaction, you have no warranty or recourse to the manufacturer or the seller.  

 

 

 

Hmmm. Not entirely sure that this is the case.

 

I enquired with Thomann about a stage piano recently (okay, okay, I know it's the wrong forum)  that I was looking to buy privately from someone local to me, but had originally been sold by them. It was about 6 months old. 

 

They said that they will continue to honour the warranty, but instead of it being a 3 year warranty, it drops down. I can't recall if it dropped to a year from when I bought it, or 2 years from the original sale, but the point was there was still a warranty. This was Thomann, but it may be the case with other sellers. 

 

It also applies in many other cases. Car warranties are transferable if the car is sold. 

 

I'd say find out where it was originally bought and also contact the manufacturer. If it was a manufacturing defect you should be protected. I would also point out to the manufacturer that this wasn't something that 'broke' it was wrong from the day it was built. 

 

If worse comes to worse, then you could threaten the manufacturer with taking them to the small claims court, but try and exhaust the other possibilities first. 

[Beedster]

17 hours ago, triplebass said:

Can anybody help with this...

 

I just reread the original post and noticed how recently this bass was built, which I didn't initially pick up (geddit....?)

 

Given that, I suspect it would be easier for people here to help if you provided more details e.g., the make and model, which would allow people here to advise on the technical side, for example which PUPs should be in the bass. Re the legal side, @RhythmJunky is probably correct in terms of warranty, and given it was built in 2024 this might still be a legally enforceable path you could take, but as @warwickhunt suggested, probably best to try diplomacy first!

 

But it sounds like you might have tried diplomacy and the builder has pushed back. So, if this is - as appears to be the case - an error in design or build, a little pressure applied on this forum would do no harm, whoever the builder is, it's likely a significant percentage of his market read this forum (although given it was a UK builder it's possible it was a custom order which might make things more problematic).   

[Hellzero]

I'm in Belgium too but not close to Brussels as I live in the South in Gaume (Étalle) otherwise I would have proposed you to have a look at the bass as I used to have my own luthiery and repair shop.

 

That said, the transfer of a warranty to a second owner is not a legal thing as the warranty is accorded to the first owner only, that's the law over here in the E.U.

 

That said, there are few exceptions like car makers who accept this transfer, or some big suppliers, like Thomann, who accept this for some items, often expensive to very expensive ones.

 

To prove a flaw in the design, you'll need to have the said flaw confirmed by an an expert to be legal, which will cost you more than the pickup(s) swapping.

 

As it's a trade between private persons, there is absolutely no legal warranty, and having bought it wouldn't change a single thing: no legal warranty.

 

Furthermore, if you have tried the bass before accepting the trade, you have absolutely no right to ask for any kind of partial refund, as you have done it accepting that the state (condition, if you prefer) of the said instrument is as is and known by the "buyer".

 

There is always a solution to a problem, but here you're walking on thin ice, so better be diplomatic with the maker as you'll also have to prove that the bass wasn't modified.

 

As others said, giving the brand name and model with a photo "describing" the flaw would help a lot.

[JPJ]

Just my thoughts, but if you intend going down the diplomatic route with the maker, then I’d resist calls to ‘name and shame’ on here until you have exhausted that route. 

[warwickhunt]

9 hours ago, RhythmJunky said:

Hmmm. Not entirely sure that this is the case.

 

I enquired with Thomann about a stage piano recently (okay, okay, I know it's the wrong forum)  that I was looking to buy privately from someone local to me, but had originally been sold by them. It was about 6 months old. 

 

They said that they will continue to honour the warranty, but instead of it being a 3 year warranty, it drops down. I can't recall if it dropped to a year from when I bought it, or 2 years from the original sale, but the point was there was still a warranty. This was Thomann, but it may be the case with other sellers. 

 

It also applies in many other cases. Car warranties are transferable if the car is sold. 

 

I'd say find out where it was originally bought and also contact the manufacturer. If it was a manufacturing defect you should be protected. I would also point out to the manufacturer that this wasn't something that 'broke' it was wrong from the day it was built. 

 

If worse comes to worse, then you could threaten the manufacturer with taking them to the small claims court, but try and exhaust the other possibilities first. 

 

Sadly I'd guess you are likely quoting just about the only exceptions to the rule.  

 

Car manufacturers and 'some' retailers can offer transferrable warranties but they are almost certainly mentioned in the small print/T&Cs.  A quick search of consumer rights UK (and remember the OP is not in the UK, so post Brexit goodness knows how that pans out) inc .GOV shows that other than the original purchaser of an item, there isn't an automatic right to a  warranty unless outlined in any receipt/paperwork; which I'm sure the OP will have cited if it was there. 

 

I'm going off gut feeling rather than absolute knowledge but I have never in 44 years of owning basses seen mention of transferrable warranties on instruments.  You might get a small boutique builder who offers to remedy issues for an undefined time on an instrument but off the shelf names I have never known.  That does lead us to the point many are wondering; what is the bass?  It could be that the bass builder is a member of BC and/or is aware of the number of users and 'might' want to remedy this.  If it turns out to be one of the big names then proving it is a manufacturing or design fault is going to be nigh impossible and most certainly expensive. 

 

[lemmywinks]

What pickup is in there at the moment and what's the size of the rout? Has the original builder acknowledged the pickup does not have appropriate coverage for the string splay he built the bass with?

 

 

Bartolini do blade pickups in various shapes, in some models the 4 and 5 string versions are the same length so you could find a suitable drop in replacement with no need for routing.