Danny Sapko discovers… (now including follow up vid that is worse!)

[Woodinblack]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

But they’re not doing it for their own personal pleasure, they’re broadcasting it.

 

And maybe that is there market. I know a fantastic keyboard player that developed massive stage fright, can't perform at all. i used to be terrified of it when I was a lot younger.

 

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

I don’t watch YouTube, don’t follow streamers or any of that sort of stuff because in most cases what I see is just not musical. It’s vain virtuosity in the pursuit of clicks (and therefore cash).

 

I watch some youtube, but not streamers or any of that stuff, I look up songs when I have to play them, I watch a few comedy things, and a few politcal things. But probably not the audience for any of that sort of stuff

[Burns-bass]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And maybe that is there market. I know a fantastic keyboard player that developed massive stage fright, can't perform at all. i used to be terrified of it when I was a lot younger.

 

 

Precisley the point I made above.

 

I live in Bristol and regularly get to see some incredible young musicians who play wonderfully. Sadly, there are few opportunities for them in the traditional sense, and I agree that YouTube provides a revenue stream. I guess so does making videos of model railways. I'm not interested in that either.

 

Reflecting on it, the point I'm making is that they're playing music but so much of it isn't musical at all. It's showing off. I mean, in what circumstances would anyone *really* want to hear double tapping or an extended solo on the bass? 

 

 

[TimR]

42 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Reflecting on it, the point I'm making is that they're playing music but so much of it isn't musical at all. It's showing off. I mean, in what circumstances would anyone *really* want to hear double tapping or an extended solo on the bass? 

 

 

There's a market for it, otherwise it wouldn't be trending. 

 

Although the market is just a prosumer market with no financial worth to the consumer. All the money is in the adverts between the content. 

 

If there truly was a market for it, the musicians would all be doing it on subscriber channels. SBL and the like have additional content that you pay for. 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

I mean, in what circumstances would anyone *really* want to hear double tapping or an extended solo on the bass? 

 

I've been known to double tap in a 'duet' with the guitarist. I even had someone come up to me afterwards and say how epic it was!

[Beer of the Bass]

Re tapping and other showboating styles, I was around Edinburgh during the Fringe for years and saw and chatted with a lot of street performers, and I feel that short-form, algorithm driven social media favours similar tactics to that. A lot of the performers who could dependably draw a crowd weren't necessarily doing something you'd watch a 3-hour show of or have as your all-time favourite album. The "wow, he's doing what with the instrument?" factor tended to be the big draw that got people walking by to stop. So lots of slappy-tappy-percussive looper performers, gimmicky or extravagantly faux-aged instruments, quirky arrangements of recognisable pop tunes, an unusual outfit or vibe, etc. Grabbing attention in the short term is everything, and I think TikTok and much of YouTube works the same way. 

[Hellzero]

I love to play to or listen to tapping being it on bass or Chapman stick.

 

When you listen to the likes of Michael Manring (who is my favourite and a fretless player), Tony Levin, Nick Beggs, or even what Stuart Hamm did on his three first albums, it can be really musical and entertaining, and not simply showing off.

[Burns-bass]

8 hours ago, Hellzero said:

I love to play to or listen to tapping being it on bass or Chapman stick.

 

When you listen to the likes of Michael Manring (who is my favourite and a fretless player), Tony Levin, Nick Beggs, or even what Stuart Hamm did on his three first albums, it can be really musical and entertaining, and not simply showing off.

Musical tastes can differ and that’s what makes the world wonderful.

 

My dad recently went to watch Appalachian clog dancing. 
 

 

[Leonard Smalls]

13 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

the point I'm making is that they're playing music but so much of it isn't musical at all. It's showing off.

Aye... Playing anything complicated or difficult shouldn't be allowed! Just because they're using a musical instrument to produce sound doesn't mean it's music, it's just about inflating their own ego. They should just stick to straightforward and easy tunes, so for keyboards, no harder than Chopsticks, and for bass players, stick to the root and throw in the occasional fifth if you really must.

I blame that Paganini and Liszt.

[tegs07]

40 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Aye... Playing anything complicated or difficult shouldn't be allowed! Just because they're using a musical instrument to produce sound doesn't mean it's music, it's just about inflating their own ego. They should just stick to straightforward and easy tunes, so for keyboards, no harder than Chopsticks, and for bass players, stick to the root and throw in the occasional fifth if you really must.

I blame that Paganini and Liszt.

I think the gist of the response is being missed. No matter what angle this is viewed from it is showboating for attention. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Hendrix used to get frustrated about questions about gimmicks (playing with teeth etc). It’s all part of grabbing an audience’s attention from the days of the juke joint and beyond. Arguably the likes of TikTok have amplified this requirement to another level. It doesn’t mean that the various artists can’t play or have no merit but it is pyrotechnics and theatre to hook people in. 

 

The fakery and theft is a darker side of this phenomenon. Each to their own with the consumption of creators online content. I guess good luck to them, but it’s not for me.

Edited 1 hour ago by tegs07

[Burns-bass]

45 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Aye... Playing anything complicated or difficult shouldn't be allowed! Just because they're using a musical instrument to produce sound doesn't mean it's music, it's just about inflating their own ego. They should just stick to straightforward and easy tunes, so for keyboards, no harder than Chopsticks, and for bass players, stick to the root and throw in the occasional fifth if you really must.

I blame that Paganini and Liszt.

As facile replies go, this is up there.

[Burns-bass]

14 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I think the gist of the response is being missed. No matter what angle this is viewed from it is showboating for attention. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Hendrix used to get frustrated about questions about gimmicks (playing with teeth etc). It’s all part of grabbing an audience’s attention from the days of the juke joint and beyond. Arguably the likes of TikTok have amplified this requirement to another level. It doesn’t mean that the various artists can’t play or have no merit but it is pyrotechnics and theatre to hook people in. 

 

The fakery and theft is a darker side of this phenomenon. Each to their own with the consumption of creators online content. I guess good luck to them, but it’s not for me.

My point was that these are technical achievements not musical statements.

 

Chopin created some of the most complex and beautiful piano music possible. It flowed through him.

 

Of course, you could probably find some kid that could play it at twice the speed, but why?

 

The majority of popular YouTubers create content that sucks you in. (Fastest bass line ever, most complex bass line ever, can I play this violin solo on bass, etc.) They’re all technical accomplishments but is it musical?

 

In my opinion, it’s not. But that’s my view.

 

You may love to see Bach cello suite played on a fretted bass at 200bpm. 
 

And if you do, that’s the magic of the world. I’m off to get measured for some clogs.

[tegs07]

26 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

My point was that these are technical achievements not musical statements.

 

Chopin created some of the most complex and beautiful piano music possible. It flowed through him.

 

Of course, you could probably find some kid that could play it at twice the speed, but why?

 

The majority of popular YouTubers create content that sucks you in. (Fastest bass line ever, most complex bass line ever, can I play this violin solo on bass, etc.) They’re all technical accomplishments but is it musical?

 

In my opinion, it’s not. But that’s my view.

 

You may love to see Bach cello suite played on a fretted bass at 200bpm. 
 

And if you do, that’s the magic of the world. I’m off to get measured for some clogs.

I basically agree. Playing the guitar with your teeth, behind your back, doing the splits or back flips whilst singing etc etc. A long history of technical achievements that engage an audience and make a show more interesting but don’t really have much to do with the music. The primary purpose was to hook the audience in and stand out from the crowd. TikTok etc have put this requirement on steroids as there is so much noise to compete with. IMO a Bach cello suite played on a fretted bass at 200bpm is likely to get more clicks than a background member of a world famous orchestra playing it normally (unless they were hot and doing it in a swim suit whilst riding a unicycle).

 

As for whether it’s musical? I guess that’s down to personal preference. Are Polyphia musical? Sounds like arse to me but I like iDLES!

Edited 1 hour ago by tegs07

[Stub Mandrel]

I looked at a website promising 'ten hard basslines'. They were all what I'd call "intermediate", but I think the point of the article was they demanded groove and feel or consistency rather than sheer speed. 

 

 

Edited 59 minutes ago by Stub Mandrel

[Burns-bass]

37 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I basically agree. Playing the guitar with your teeth, behind your back, doing the splits or back flips whilst singing etc etc. A long history of technical achievements that engage an audience and make a show more interesting but don’t really have much to do with the music. The primary purpose was to hook the audience in and stand out from the crowd. TikTok etc have put this requirement on steroids as there is so much noise to compete with. IMO a Bach cello suite played on a fretted bass at 200bpm is likely to get more clicks than a background member of a world famous orchestra playing it normally (unless they were hot and doing it in a swim suit whilst riding a unicycle).

 

As for whether it’s musical? I guess that’s down to personal preference. Are Polyphia musical? Sounds like arse to me but I like iDLES!

 

That's because we're in Bristol which is objectively the best place in the UK.

[TimR]

37 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I looked at a website promising 'ten hard basslines'. They were all what I'd call "intermediate", but I think the point of the article was they demanded groove and feel or consistency rather than sheer speed. 

 

 

 

The click bait worked then.

 

The problem now is you won't bother looking next time, so in order to get your attention it will have to be 10 Hardest bass lines, then 10 Impossible bass lines... The algorithm already knows you're interested in Bass Lines, you're now on their target list.

 

As I wrote upthread, everyone is searching for something that doesn't exist - and the creators are promising that 'something'.

 

At some point, people have to go outside into the real world. The problem is they take their phones with them.