Markbass LMII is now discontinued

[dave_bass5]

I just hope the LMIII can live up to the LMII's reputation.
On paper it seems to be much improved.

End of an era.

[Musicman20]

I saw that. I think its basically going to be the same amp with a few additions. Im trying one next week Ill let everyone know. I loved my trial of a LM2 so im hoping this will be the same

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='491305' date='May 18 2009, 12:59 PM']I saw that. I think its basically going to be the same amp with a few additions. Im trying one next week Ill let everyone know. I loved my trial of a LM2 so im hoping this will be the same [/quote]


Yeah, im interested in how the new amps sound. I think they have a different power stage in them (must be digital i guess) and from what i understand (little) part of the LMII's sound was its warm power stage.
I would love a LMIII but i cant believe how expensive it is. Even the LMII is a lot more now than when i got mine.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='491309' date='May 18 2009, 01:03 PM']Even the LMII is a lot more now than when i got mine.[/quote]
That'll be the €'s strength against the £.

[51m0n]

I think the power stage is the same (judging by a recent post by Peter Murray on TalkBass) so you should be fine.

My understanding is as follows:-

The LMII, LMIIITube & LMIII share a power amp, the new versions have an updated limiter though so the issues with 8Ohm operation should have gone (apparently)

The LMIII800 has a digital power amp

They ALL have digital power supplies.

I may be wrong though (ping them an email, they will clear up any doubt)

Edited May 18, 2009 by 51m0n

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='51m0n' post='491350' date='May 18 2009, 01:50 PM']I think the power stage is the same (judging by a recent post by Peter Murray on TalkBass) so you should be fine.

My understanding is as follows:-

The LMII, LMIIITube & LMIII share a power amp, the new versions have an updated limiter though so the issues with 8Ohm operation should have gone (apparently)

The LMIII800 has a digital power amp

They ALL have digital power supplies.

I may be wrong though (ping them an email, they will clear up any doubt)[/quote]

Thanks. The above is my understanding of the new line as well.
I do quite fancy just replacing my LMII with the 500watt LMIII as i do believe it will sound a bit better but I guess i should have said LMIII800 above as thats the one i "really" want and that does have the digital powerstage.

[alexclaber]

Apart from calling it digital that's quite correct. The 'digital' power supplies are switch mode supplies, which rectify the incoming AC, and then use high frequency switching to turn this DC into high frequency (many kHz instead 50Hz) AC, and then a smaller power transformer (size of power transformer is inversely proportional to the frequency it operates at). You'll find these in tons of modern things, most obviously mobile phone chargers (not how much smaller and lighter they are than 10 years ago). Usually called SMPS.

Then they use normal Class AB amps on the 500W models and Class D (which again use high frequency switching but aren't really digital) amps on the 800W+ models.

Alex

[chris_b]

There are minimal changes and the LM3 will be the same 500 watts and probably won't sound any different to the LM2 as 90% of it is the same! The purpose of this re branding is to generate sales as the changes don't warrant a new name just a different version number, ie LM2B.

Check out the real news, the LM Tube 500 and 800 but tell Markbass that this is one marketing ploy that won't work by giving it a miss!!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='chris_b' post='491369' date='May 18 2009, 02:10 PM']There are minimal changes and the LM3 will be the same 500 watts and probably won't sound any different to the LM2 as 90% of it is the same! The purpose of this re branding is to generate sales as the changes don't warrant a new name just a different version number, ie LM2B.

Check out the real news, the LM Tube 500 and 800 but tell Markbass that this is one marketing ploy that won't work by giving it a miss!![/quote]

I think i would find it very hard to hand over the money for a LMIII just for the refinements. Especially if there was nothing wrong with my LMII.
If i had to replace my LMII (or even SA450) i would prefer one of the new heads as i do find the refinements are good ones (on paper).

Im sure Alex will (might have done already) put me straight but from what i have read about the older D class MB heads (excluding the SD800) the attack should be a bit faster in the LMIII800 and that appeals to me, along with the other new bits.
If the tube versions were cheaper i might have considered one of those but they are more than i care to spend.

[51m0n]

Well I've had a go on the tube versions and frankly couldnt tell any diff sweeping the preamp control, yes the sound changed (could hear it 'summing' differently during a sweep, but couldnt quantify any real change in the sound once I stopped sweeping.

This was with the 800w variant, so class D amp. Sounded hugely loud mind

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='51m0n' post='491378' date='May 18 2009, 02:16 PM']Well I've had a go on the tube versions and frankly couldnt tell any diff sweeping the preamp control, yes the sound changed (could hear it 'summing' differently during a sweep, but couldnt quantify any real change in the sound once I stopped sweeping.[/quote]

I felt the same with my old Ashdown ABM. I just felt that the tube pre was more a selling point than anything else.
I know its only in the preamp stage so will never give that real over driven tube head sound but to my ears it made no difference.

[Dood]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='491363' date='May 18 2009, 02:02 PM']Apart from calling it digital that's quite correct. The 'digital' power supplies are switch mode supplies, which rectify the incoming AC, and then use high frequency switching to turn this DC into high frequency (many kHz instead 50Hz) AC, and then a smaller power transformer (size of power transformer is inversely proportional to the frequency it operates at). You'll find these in tons of modern things, most obviously mobile phone chargers (not how much smaller and lighter they are than 10 years ago). Usually called SMPS.

Then they use normal Class AB amps on the 500W models and Class D (which again use high frequency switching but aren't really digital) amps on the 800W+ models.

Alex[/quote]


Thank you Alex! I think this is soon to become a little pet peave of mine! People calling amps 'digital' grr! he he he he!!!! - I posted on another thread about 'digital' amps.. though I couldn't be bothered to explain the technical side and found a useful article link on the net instead.

Anyway, back on topic.. ummm... I must admit, I like the tone that people call 'valve tone', but I really can't be dealing with all this smoke and mystery over valves.. they really aren't special and I am fed up all the guff that surrounds these oh so magical creatures of the tone world that lives inside your amp!!! oooh woopdeee doo Basil! What does it all mean! * You can produce those dirty gnarly tones without valves and ironically.. I know for a fact that certain guitar amps on the market that sell as 'amazing valve distortion' are getting their clipping from none other than diodes, back to back in a feedback loop... errr.. solid state anyone he he! ;o)

This isn't a rant.. it makes me chuckle! - Ok... and I really like the MarkBass F1 - It's awsome.


*Thanks to Mr Powers for the quote.

[51m0n]

Thing is, if its supposed to be a clean valve (ie like the Hartke LH500) then you really shouldnt hear any diff at all. Only if you drive it hard, and even when I had the little blue light on all the time, although there was breakup it wasnt especially 'nice' to my ears.

The LH500 is clean as a whistle, you'd never know there was a tube in there IMO. Well as far as I could tell with the LMIIItube 800, I couldnt tell either. So why bother.....

I qualify all this with stating that I am not a 'tube guy' or any kind of officianado thereof. I do have a decent pair of analytical ears IMO, from years of mixing etc, and just refuse to be taken in by all this tube gash....

YMMV (a lot!)

[Musicman20]

Ill let everyone know next week what the new line is like. Off to test a LM3, LMTube and LMTube 800.

The LMTube800 is the one I want...it needs to impress me though!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='491421' date='May 18 2009, 02:48 PM']Ill let everyone know next week what the new line is like. Off to test a LM3, LMTube and LMTube 800.

The LMTube800 is the one I want...it needs to impress me though![/quote]

Have you got any prices for these amps yet?

[yorks5stringer]

Absolute had a LMIII on ebay last week but it has gone, I think it was just below or just above £700 ( could be wrong!) whereas a LMII can be had for just over £520 now.

[51m0n]

Crikey, I got my sa450 for £475 new a while back (admittedly I held out hard for that deal, arm twisting to the point of a chinese burn was delivered )

And before anyone quotes exchange rates, the US prices have not hiked nearly as much as ours have, last time I checked.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='51m0n' post='491477' date='May 18 2009, 03:35 PM']Crikey, I got my sa450 for £475 new a while back (admittedly I held out hard for that deal, arm twisting to the point of a chinese burn was delivered )

And before anyone quotes exchange rates, the US prices have not hiked nearly as much as ours have, last time I checked.[/quote]

My SA450 was £450 three years ago and my LMII was £460 two years ago. I know these new models are "better" but its quite a price hike.

[Musicman20]

Best prices ive seen are Bass Centre

ROUGHLY

£607 LM3
£845 LMTube800
£737 LMTube

BUT...no doubt all retailers will match. GAK prices over the phone were incredibly high..like £100+ more.

They dont seem TOO bad...considering the price rises. Markbass is quality gear. A 500W LM3 for £600 seems fairly alright to me. But then again ive only just started to researchh. Genz are EVEN more for their new line.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='491510' date='May 18 2009, 04:11 PM']Best prices ive seen are Bass Centre

ROUGHLY

£607 LM3
£845 LMTube800
£737 LMTube

BUT...no doubt all retailers will match. GAK prices over the phone were incredibly high..like £100+ more.

They dont seem TOO bad...considering the price rises. Markbass is quality gear. A 500W LM3 for £600 seems fairly alright to me. But then again ive only just started to researchh. Genz are EVEN more for their new line.[/quote]

Yeah, they aren't too bad. Ive only seen the RRP (or what ever they call it these days) and they are a lot higher.
Cant see the LMIII though.

Edited May 18, 2009 by dave_bass5

[Musicman20]

The RRP is awfully high! Thats what GAK quoted me.

[yorks5stringer]

Absolute are £630 on the LMIII with a currency fluctuation proviso on the price...surely they would just order 20 at a price, if it then goes up then sell those new ones at the new price??

[alexclaber]

[quote name='51m0n' post='491477' date='May 18 2009, 03:35 PM']And before anyone quotes exchange rates, the US prices have not hiked nearly as much as ours have, last time I checked.[/quote]

But it is exchange rate driven - GBP has totally devalued against EUR and USD. Although EUR/USD moved quite a lot a couple of years back the flow of currency from UK to US has stopped USD falling further vs EUR.

Alex

[Platypus]

More gratuitous use of graphs Mr Claber

[Hamster]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='491624' date='May 18 2009, 05:31 PM']But it is exchange rate driven - GBP has totally devalued against EUR and USD. Although EUR/USD moved quite a lot a couple of years back the flow of currency from UK to US has stopped USD falling further vs EUR.

Alex[/quote]


Interesting - on that second graph it shows the blip at 3.24pm on a Wednesday afternoon in October when I kicked my mortgage advisor hard in the bollocks!