Geek99 Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, rmorris said: So it wasn't actually silent ? Or.... I don’t have an amp, I would have been playing along to the music on headphones (had I made it to note #2) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 I’ve spoken to the organiser (who wasn’t there that night) and he is wisely telling me not to overthink this, suggesting that I come along for a few nights and don’t play and get to know people instead. He suggests that a combination of needing to go, going first and not feeling comfortable didn’t help (own failures notwithstanding) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 For the past two years since I took on a life of travelling most of my musical output has been jam nights and let me say they are categorically the most difficult and least rewarding musical endeavours one can do. Your points and takeaways are all valid but I would suggest you look at a different output. Since my last jam in Houston, Texas playing 12 bar blues for over an hour (keep that in mind as that’s the output, playing the same 3 chord shape in different places for over an hour), I got loads of compliments, but I absolutely fluffed a slow blues because it was that slow I thought something more complex was going on than just going to the 4th for the 2nd bar instead of a standard arrangement 🙄, drummer just crushed me afterwards by saying “I guess you don’t play the blues very much” Let me tell you, that stung, even though not 10 minutes earlier I had a an old proper bluesman tearing it up on hammond tell me those were some tasty licks, fist bumps from the drummer, lapsteel player come up between songs to tell me how great it sounded, yadda yadda And I’d nailed a more complex song earlier because the guitarist told me oh this has a flattened 5th in the turn around, whereas slow blues guitarist just half arsed counted off some of the changes occasionally. My outcome from that is I’m not doing jam nights anymore, I prefer a more controlled environments but my lifestyle doesn’t suit playing in a band. So I’m going to ‘hire’ some session musician friends and jam in a studio, this solves all my issues with jams and quite honestly gigs. Because everything you’ve mentioned for the night going wrong I’ve experienced. My biggest pet hate is we somehow seem to accept hearing ourselves or the band a luxury in the gigging world. Every pro musician will tell you the best was to learn is go out there and play with lots of people, but we assume that has to be in front of people, it doesn’t. You can go have a lesson with a drum teacher, guitar teacher, piano etc etc and basically pay to play with them for the hour. You don’t NEED a band and you don’t NEED to be going to jam nights but you do NEED to be playing with people, lots of ways to do that though 😉 My favourite thing to tell people from my Open Mic experiences (because you can imagine how many people want to play with you when you turn up with a double bass) Me: What key are we in Singer Songwriter: Erm well this string is down 2, this string up 4, these two doubled, then I’m capo’d 11 Me: Right What followed was a number of chord changes that would embarrass a prog musician as overplaying. The expectation that we can just follow this song they’ve been perfecting in their bedroom for the past 7 months when they don’t even know what they’re playing 👍🙄 Finally, don’t forget you’ll never struggle to find a gig as a bass player 😇 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 As others have said, it's a jam. Everyone's interpretation of a tune will be different because you haven't rehearsed together. That's the whole idea. Not much you can do with a drummer who doesn't play solid time other than hope they have a different one available next time. If it's too loud make sure you're wearing ear plugs. Learn to read charts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, TimR said: As others have said, it's a jam. Everyone's interpretation of a tune will be different because you haven't rehearsed together. That's the whole idea. Not much you can do with a drummer who doesn't play solid time other than hope they have a different one available next time. If it's too loud make sure you're wearing ear plugs. Learn to read charts. I’m sure the drummer knew what he was doing, I just couldn’t hear him. I was right by drums, to his right. I looked at a few versions of tab and cover version. Edited February 11 by Geek99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) Jam nights are a different to regular gigs as it often requires; learning a song as you play, following cues from other players, and improvisation. Ive embarrassed myself plenty of times but I came away each time knowing what I need to work on if I go again. Edited February 11 by OliverBlackman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Sounds like everytime I try to play.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 09/02/2024 at 13:54, chris_b said: @Geek99 If you are playing with guys who can't get it right then don't blame yourself. This. It doesn't sound as if the other players at the jam were much cop, to put it bluntly. If it was really too loud to hear the drums when you were standing next to them, that's ridiculous. If the people you are playing with are terrible, you have no chance of getting anything right. It will just drag you down to their level (lie down with the dog, get up with fleas). Jams are notorious for being like that. I've seen really good players drowned out and dragged down by ham-fisted idiots at jams. You can't play correctly if everyone else is blundering along and blasting the windows out. Regardless of whether or not they're "encouraging", I'd be looking for somewhere else. Sure you made mistakes, but it doesn't sound as if you were the only one. You were just more honest about your shortcomings than they were. Forget it and move on to pastures new. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 10/02/2024 at 10:43, Geek99 said: they kept turning me up and I knew I had got lost and kept reducing my volume (not proud of that part) That's an old pro trick. If you don't know the song or you've got lost just turn your volume down and dance around like you're having a great time. I did that through 90% percent of a wedding once.......nobody noticed! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franticsmurf Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 5 minutes ago, gjones said: That's an old pro trick. If you don't know the song or you've got lost just turn your volume down and dance around like you're having a great time. I did that through 90% percent of a wedding once.......nobody noticed! I've done that before now. The key to it is, as you say, dancing around and looking like you know exactly what you're doing. 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Sounds like you were ambushed into accompanying the leftover muppets who hadn't had a go yet. You need to develop some 'authority' about your output that better players will tag you to play with them more often. That's basically how I progressed while not owning a stage amp until I got offered a gig and had to go buy one smartly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, Geek99 said: I’m sure the drummer knew what he was doing, I just couldn’t hear him. I was right to drums, to his right. I looked at a few versions of tab and cover version. Ah. Sorry. It was the guitarist rushing. Learning versions of songs is only useful to get an idea of how the song goes in a rough fashion. Once you know its a blues progression, everyone will just play around. They'll throw in solos, extra verses, double, triple, quadruple choruses etc. The point of learning to read charts is; if there is someone with a chart, you can just step in and follow it. If someone is expecting you to follow a chart on first viewing without knowing the tune - it will be a very simple chart/song. Even better, take your own charts for songs you know and hope there's a singer who knows the tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 17 minutes ago, TimR said: Ah. Sorry. It was the guitarist rushing. Learning versions of songs is only useful to get an idea of how the song goes in a rough fashion. Once you know its a blues progression, everyone will just play around. They'll throw in solos, extra verses, double, triple, quadruple choruses etc. The point of learning to read charts is; if there is someone with a chart, you can just step in and follow it. If someone is expecting you to follow a chart on first viewing without knowing the tune - it will be a very simple chart/song. Even better, take your own charts for songs you know and hope there's a singer who knows the tunes. I’m not sure anyone was rushing I think they just play fast al the time even the singer commented on it being so, the guitarist was super loud and very confident. Nice guy but a stereotype player. @Downunderwonder I was first up as I was in their direct line of sight and yes somewhat ambushed as I’d given up on them due to the late start such that I really had to be on my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie C Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 10/02/2024 at 11:54, tauzero said: It's useful to be able to read a guitarist's finger when they're playing chords, especially if they're so loud you can't make out what's going on. Sound advice. I can't play guitar, but I learned the common chord shapes and have developed skills in guitar capo arithmetic! It's got me through many jam sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffb28451 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 OP listed EXTREMELY important lessons for the real world. Dark necks, wrong keys, issues with stage lights, guitarists who, well, play like guitarists, etc. These are all very real and ever present issues, among others and jam sessions are better places to learn these lessons than auditions or paid gigs. Wish I'd have gone to more when I was younger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbunney Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 What helped my confidence at the local jam night was to learn a couple of the songs that the house band played the week before, and then played those whilst the house bass player took a break the next week. Then we’d did a couple that I knew, and the house band also knew the thought of jamming on stuff I have never heard, or following charts etc fills me with dred! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 I’ve been back there since, ran into guitarist and apologised for the train wreck. The compère had asked a local dep to give me some tips (they both think I just lack confidence though I’d add “talent”) and I asked my drummer buddy to spend five minutes drumming for me so I can get used to it without a noisy guitarist top guys 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 10/02/2024 at 22:55, Geek99 said: I’ve spoken to the organiser (who wasn’t there that night) and he is wisely telling me not to overthink this, suggesting that I come along for a few nights and don’t play and get to know people instead. He suggests that a combination of needing to go, going first and not feeling comfortable didn’t help (own failures notwithstanding) I think that you are overthinking it. The point of a jam session is to play with different people, take a few chances and take yourself out of your comfort zone. Sometimes it will be quite magical and sometimes the wheels will come off. Inevitably you will make mistakes, but the idea is that you learn from those mistakes. It's not a bad idea to just watch a couple of times to get the feel of it and get comfortable with the people there. But don't let it put you off getting up again when you're ready. 35 minutes ago, Geek99 said: I’ve been back there since, ran into guitarist and apologised for the train wreck. The compère had asked a local dep to give me some tips (they both think I just lack confidence though I’d add “talent”) and I asked my drummer buddy to spend five minutes drumming for me so I can get used to it without a noisy guitarist I've been in the house band for lots of jam sessions over the years, playing with everyone from Texan blues semi-legends whose albums I had bought (scary, but fun) to guys who have never played on stage before. For the smaller ones, part of the fun is to get guys without much experience and see their confidence grow as they get better each time they get up. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 9 hours ago, markbunney said: the thought of jamming on stuff I have never heard, or following charts etc fills me with dred! Once you get over that it's all fun. Play along with the TV adverts at home. Most have a readily catchonable bass riff. If you don't get it first time you get another crack in 12 minutes. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 17 hours ago, markbunney said: What helped my confidence at the local jam night was to learn a couple of the songs that the house band played the week before, and then played those whilst the house bass player took a break the next week. Then we’d did a couple that I knew, and the house band also knew the thought of jamming on stuff I have never heard, or following charts etc fills me with dred! See that didn’t bother me. I played bass behind an acoustic guy who it turned out disliked bass and he wouldn’t even tell me he was playing next. When I worked it out I quickly googled the chords and made something up. Winging it is actually something I’m good at 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 I realise that this may not be particularly helpful, but just more of an observation that trying to compete with people who are playing extremely loudly when they're not at Woodstock / Isle of Wight is extremely hard and not usually a lot of fun. So it's another reason not to be too hard on yourself in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 58 minutes ago, tinyd said: I realise that this may not be particularly helpful, but just more of an observation that trying to compete with people who are playing extremely loudly when they're not at Woodstock / Isle of Wight is extremely hard and not usually a lot of fun. So it's another reason not to be too hard on yourself in my opinion. I’m always hard on myself. People content with mediocrity rarely prosper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 12 minutes ago, Geek99 said: I’m always hard on myself. People content with mediocrity rarely prosper If only that were true. Many of the most successful people I know have the right contacts and bucketloads of self-confidence, which quite often has little relationship to their abilities...! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 3 minutes ago, peteb said: If only that were true. Many of the most successful people I know have the right contacts and bucketloads of self-confidence, which quite often has little relationship to their abilities...! Perhaps but I consider it less likely that they will succeed versus someone with drive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebassmusic Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 On 11/02/2024 at 19:39, Geek99 said: I’m sure the drummer knew what he was doing, I just couldn’t hear him. I was right by drums, to his right. I looked at a few versions of tab and cover version. As others have said, if you're next to the drummer and cant hear them then one or more people on the stage are WAAAAAAYYYY too loud! If you can't hear the drummer for any reason usually you can see them and get visual clues on the tempo / stops / pushes etc. Not the best way but it can help. I've been going to jams or been in the house band since last century 🤣 and some songs you wish had been recorded as everything just worked together........other times its more of a train wreck (occasionally caused by yours truly 🤣) I think its a great place to learn to listen and watch what others are doing within a song. It can be scary and difficult at first but once youve learned the basis of a few songs and done it a few times it gets easier and more fun 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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