zbd1960 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 The cello is German and dates to around 1900. It's overdue a check-up by a luthier - last done about 6 years ago. Apart from a general check-up I had a couple of issues to look at. The back got scratched a couple of weeks ago, and there looks to be a small crack on the belly under the fingerboard near the neck joint... It wasn't a good news day. He will try to disguise the scratch, but the only way to properly get rid of it is to have it re-varnished and re-polished - way too expensive. He's not worried about the crack - he thinks it's an old one and as it's not causing nay issues, leave it alone. The action seems to be on the high side and needs lowering, which at the least means re-cutting the bridge. However, the bridge has a bit of a bow in it towards the tailpiece. That means a new bridge. £500. That also means a new sound post as he's going to move the bridge a bit north of where it is. £130. Bow needs re-hairing. £80. A string has got a sort of kink in it, so new one - about £40. I wanted the bow re-hairing and I was aware of the A string being near due for replacement. I wasn't expecting major set-up changes like a new bridge, sound post, and lowering of the action. It'll be ready in about 3 weeks and about £800. 😭 Photo is me playing last week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 £500 for a new bridge??? I know inflation is mad but getting a new DB bridge with adjusters cost me a fraction of that a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 minute ago, velvetkevorkian said: £500 for a new bridge??? I know inflation is mad but getting a new DB bridge with adjusters cost me a fraction of that a few years ago. Yeah last one I had made was about half that... I rather suspect my local luthier is at the more expensive end of the spectrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 It’s made of gold, right ? Phew … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Good opportunity to learn how to do your own bridge, some lovely online content (especially good piece from an Oxford luthier whose name escapes me). £500 buys a lot of blanks 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Thomas & George Martin of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Yes, that's too much for even a good quality bridge. Though some luthiers take a lot of care in ( unecessary?) shaping and prettification of the blank. Bass bags charged me £150 to fit a decent despau bridge last year - it's a bit rough and ready ( no fine sanding) but sounds good. I've done my own bridges a couple of times but it's a lot of dull work to get the feet right. New soundpost just cause the bridge is bent? Hmm. As for moving the bridge I do that lots anyway...tho I finally settled in the "best" spot. Scratches ...pah. old instruments have scratches. I do think some luthiers are a bit precious. Whatever, money spent...just enjoy the playing. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 I was recently (i.e. this month) quoted £275 for a new DB bridge, so £500 sounds v steep to me. When I demurred, he said he'll boil it off and clamp it to straighten it instead and will chuck it in with the fingerboard work he was doing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 I read this going Ouch! all the way through, then I noticed the OP's location. I'm guessing there's not a lot of good-quality luthiers to compete with each other in North Lake District? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 26/08/2023 at 11:42, Happy Jack said: I read this going Ouch! all the way through, then I noticed the OP's location. I'm guessing there's not a lot of good-quality luthiers to compete with each other in North Lake District? I think that is very much a part of the issue: he's only 20 miles away. It's either him or a double round trip to somewhere like Liverpool. I think he's also playing on the fact that he trained at WE Hill (must have been decades ago as he's not a youngster). When it's ready, I am going to be critical as his argument for moving the bridge and hence needing a new one, which also means a new sound post as it will be in a different place, is it was int he wrong place. If I don't think it's an improvement I'm going to have a lot to say about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 Bridge and soundpost position are related for sure. But you can improve the sound by moving the bridge up and down ..tailpiece direction for more grit, fingerboard direction for more mellow usually... without shifting the soundpost. If it's way off then maybe, but if the bridge is more or less centred on the f hole notches and you're happy with the sound then not worth it. ( mine works best with the bridge a tad south of the notches) My bridge bent in low humidity when I lived in Korea in 1995, local luthier flattened it. UK high humidity bent it back in 1999, bloke in Chapel-en-le-frith steamed it flat again. Didn't replace it till 2020. I guess if you were a top pro with a Strad or Amati then these tiny tweaks would be the percentage gains you'd want to get the best from a million quid instrument ... but your 1900 German and my 1900 french probably won't appreciate that level of detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 The problem is that luthiers do not want to let things out of their shops until everything is "Just So". And "Just So" costs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 And their definition of "Just So" is often radically different from our desire of "this is working, let's not fix it". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 The previous luthier moved the bridge significantly south of the notches in the f holes. His view was that he f holes were in the wrong place... This guy measured the stop length etc and said it had moved too far... The bridge is warped though. I watched a YT video on bridges and the luthier talked about a very similar issue with the bridge curving - they can get a sort of 's' bend. You have to keep an eye on it sitting square on the body using a straight edge. Straighten the bridge if it's leaning back. You need ot use a straight-edge / square to do that. I've never done it and the bridge has been on for 6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Owen said: And their definition of "Just So" is often radically different from our desire of "this is working, let's not fix it". Agreed and I think the issue here is doesn't match his view of 'right', which is different to previous luthier's 'right'. I'll be cross of the sound isn't right as the issue I had with the cello originally is that the sound was very boxed in, which the previous luthier improved a lot. Cello won't be back for another week or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) Just slap on a BBOT bridge, £8.50 at Thomann, almost a 100 times cheaper, or how about a brand new Thomann cello for just £345, cause tonewood is a lie elitists made up to make profit on people who suffers from hearing delusions, and you don't want to be a cork (and probably other more questionable substances too) sniffer, do you? On a serious note, glad I chose electric bass, though honestly I always wanted an upright acoustic one. Edited September 10, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 Well, I'm sitting in a room with a £1,500 'cello and a £90,000 'cello and can certainly say the £90,000 one has the edge. Not just the tone wood I guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 Cello is back from luthier. New 'A' string fitted - a standard Larson at £36.50. He managed to make the scratches 'go away' (more or less) so the back looks a lot better (back got scratched badly when I was at one of the summer schools). He's lowered the action, re-haired and cleaned my bow, made and fitted a new bridge and sound post. Unfortunately, I've hurt my left hand and I can't really play, but it plays and playing up in the treble clef is more comfortable. I've not played it enough yet to have a view on any change to the sound. Initial impression is brighter, but that's probably the new A string. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Glad to hear the 'cello work has come good. When you get to sit and play for a while, you soon forget the cost 🙂 My dad's Forster (the £90k one!) has Larssens and he talked me into fitting the same to my 1900 FFC. Too bright, but they do come down a bit with a few hours of playing. The Forster deserves a set of eudoxas .. but it won't be me that fits them sadly. Dad's dying and the forster will have to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 Sorry to hear that. I have Larsons on the A & D and Spirocore Tungsten on the G & C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, NickA said: Glad to hear the 'cello work has come good. When you get to sit and play for a while, you soon forget the cost 🙂 My dad's Forster (the £90k one!) has Larssens and he talked me into fitting the same to my 1900 FFC. Too bright, but they do come down a bit with a few hours of playing. The Forster deserves a set of eudoxas .. but it won't be me that fits them sadly. Dad's dying and the forster will have to go. Sometimes it sucks to be a grown-up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, zbd1960 said: Spirocore Tungsten on the G & C. That's a very popular combination. I have silver wound dominants on my G and C ... the price of silver now makes tungsten a reasonable proposition. I've not tried it but reviews say they can be a bit brash and "metallic" sounding (no kidding, they're metal!). How are they? NB: my 'cello has a nice fat bottom (oer missus) but is a bit harsh at the top end already. I see Larsen also do a tunsgten set now .. Magnacore. Might give them a try as the dominants are a) shot, b) not very good. @Owen, certainly does. Dad stopped playing about 9 months ago saying he'd played everything he was ever going to play and he was only getting worse at it. We wondered what was going on. Then he got diagnosed with a brain tumour ... and now, whilst sitting about waiting for the inevitable, I'm going through 'cellos, bows, heaps of music etc etc. About which, 1970s "self fitting" De Jacques bridges anyone? Sound pretty awful, but £500 cheaper than getting it done properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) I used to have a De Jacques bridge back in the day! I always thought there was something quite elegant about it. This is the only bit of 'cello I have left now. Edited September 12, 2023 by Owen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 I actually also have 80% of my Tortellier spike as well. It did not make me a better player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 55 minutes ago, Owen said: Tortellier spike Oh lord I'd forgotten those. Everyone (tortellier, rostropovich) had one in the 70s. So did a lass called Hannah Roberts in my local youth orchestra ...she played Kol Nidrei with us, aged about 8; god we were jealous. Her mum was the peripatetic 'cello teacher for Cambridge when my dad was the one for Huntingdon... she had one too. Cambridge was always posher than Huntingdon. Hannah has done OK with the old 'cello lark ( https://hannahroberts.com/ ) but seems to have dropped the bent pin. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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