Festival backline vs bringing amps/Ampeg SVT 7 vs Tonehammer 700

[Misowaki]

Hi all.

A run of festivals this year has left me a little torn. Last weekend I found myself getting a weird squelch on the last few songs of the set. Any time I hit a note on the low E, it sounded like an octaver failing to track. Checked my pedals, filter was off, OC2 was off. I was running my Tonehammer DI as a preamp through a Spectracomp set low into a rather weak sounding Ampeg SVT 'fridge' set up, which is usually pretty dependable or at least workable. Maybe it was over compressed, who knows. I'm pretty sure I turned the compression off on the amp. I've owned and used enough Ampegs in my time to know how to work one but this was weird from the off.
At changeover, I noticed the next bassist had their own head. This has made me think maybe I'm slouching by not bringing mine.

I have another 3 festivals this weekend and will be taking my Ampeg SVT 7 Pro which is great but unwieldy in its rack case when you're hanging off the back of an already overloaded transport buggy with band and gear like some weird Gollum, clinging to all the cases so they don't fall off. Long story short, I need a convenient, dependable, transportable workaround.

I'm thinking about maybe selling the SVT 7 and getting a Tonehammer 700. I love Aguilar amps and they're a little more portable, right? Pretty sure I've seen one fit in the front pocket of a Mono case. Never owned one but played through various Aguilars at festivals and they're to die for.

Anyone have any similar experiences and fixes/advice or recommendations?

Thanks!

[Lozz196]

Sounds like the Ampeg was a bit iffy to say the least.

 

Having played a good few of these types of gigs I used to always have the DI from my preamp pedal rather than the amp. I could then set the amp to however I wanted for onstage sound knowing that the audience were getting what they were meant to (unless the desk people messed it up). 
 

In instances where the provided amp was rotten I’d turn it down and ask for more in the monitors. 

[BassAdder60]

I can really recommend the Aguilar TH700 as a superb quality amp 

 

It replaced my all valve CTM100 

[acidbass]

I'm not a fan of the Aguilar TH stuff personally. I could never get a good tone from a TH500 - always too much drive/distortion even with Drive control completely off. Obviously this might be a desirable tone depending on your style but for me it wasn't clean enough.

[Misowaki]

3 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

 

In instances where the provided amp was rotten I’d turn it down and ask for more in the monitors. 

 

I always get a wedge mix that gives me as much as I'm getting from the amp, I like to bathe in the lows and know I'm getting the same sound all around
Wasn't enough time or consistency of fault to get it sorted as it was mainly in the last song whenever I hit the G#. Never had an issue before but it's given me the willies as still have a fair few fests to go this summer.

But yeah, I think it might have just been a dodgy amp. Still.

[Misowaki]

48 minutes ago, acidbass said:

I'm not a fan of the Aguilar TH stuff personally. I could never get a good tone from a TH500 - always too much drive/distortion even with Drive control completely off. Obviously this might be a desirable tone depending on your style but for me it wasn't clean enough.

Clean and warm is what I'm after. Used an Aguilar rig at a couple festivals and it gave me that in spades. Only other thing is headroom for pedals, OC2 and Manta filter being the main ones. I always use my Tonehammer DI through every rig with the amp set flat, maybe with the treble cut. Most of the time, Ampegs are fine. Only really had Ampeg heads for the last 8 years or so (a TC BH250 head for home/smaller gigs) and I know Aguilar will give me what I need. I've had the PF heads before and they've been a bit iffy. My SVT 7 had an issue with some dry joints in 2019 but has been good otherwise.

I guess I really wanted to know if anyone's using a Tonehammer at festivals and the like. Bigger fests, you know they're gonna have good gear. Reading, Leeds, Glasto have all been great. Some of the smaller ones that have been put together by, uh... less experienced folk tend to have cheaper gear, in my experience. Maybe it's just the stages we've played.

[borntohang]

With festivals (or any show too big for the stage amp to not be in the room) I always went DI to FoH, then IEMs for direct monitoring and whatever backline amp was there just for rumbling the floor a bit under my shoes and rarely turned up enough to trouble the front row. Even with good gear and crew you can't trust house amps or mic'ing to be consistent so I wanted whatever was travelling to FoH to be as self-controlled as possible. Aguilar 410s and Ampeg fridges seemed to be the rigs of fashion so I got fairly good at dialing them flat, or at least knowing what colour they would introduce to my monitoring sound. 

 

I always used a VTDI so your Tone hammer would work, but if you need your amp to get that tone and you can physically carry it with the rest of your gear then personally that would be the route.

[Lozz196]

If you def want to take an amp that will deliver then the Tonehammer - given you use the pedal already - makes perfect sense, they’re small, light, incredibly loud, and sound great. I used to use them and paired mine with so many different cabs, always easy to get a decent sound.

[BassAdder60]

3 hours ago, acidbass said:

I'm not a fan of the Aguilar TH stuff personally. I could never get a good tone from a TH500 - always too much drive/distortion even with Drive control completely off. Obviously this might be a desirable tone depending on your style but for me it wasn't clean enough.

This isn’t my experience with my TH700 but it does take time understanding the drive / gain interaction in relation to the EQ 

 

Mine is clean, warm and vintage if needed and sounds very valve like 

[nilorius]

18 hours ago, acidbass said:

I'm not a fan of the Aguilar TH stuff personally. I could never get a good tone from a TH500 - always too much drive/distortion even with Drive control completely off. Obviously this might be a desirable tone depending on your style but for me it wasn't clean enough.

I think You have played a game a bit much with TH gain level, it reacts very fast and gives drive if pushed too much. Doesn't have a drive problems with TH500 otherwise.

[BassAdder60]

On 26/07/2023 at 13:46, nilorius said:

I think You have played a game a bit much with TH gain level, it reacts very fast and gives drive if pushed too much. Doesn't have a drive problems with TH500 otherwise.

The ToneHammer amps input gain isn’t like other amps. In fact you can turn it fully anti-clockwise and still get signal. Mine if turned to 3 o’clock starts to clip and very occasionally the red clip light comes on. 
I run mine around 12 o’clock and it’s a warm clean tone and I then run the drive about the same ( still clean ) 

 

Fantastic amps when you discover how to drive them 

[BigRedX]

"Festival" covers a wide variety of situations from playing on the back of a covered trailer to 50 people to Glastonbury and bigger.

 

Therefore there is no "one size fits all solution". However for all but the very smallest festivals I would expect the bass to be delivered by the PA and my rig to be at best for on-stage monitoring only. From personal experience, even the smaller festivals I have played unless my rig was being mic'd up (and that mic being used as the main feed for the bass guitar to the PA) my rig was little more than a big, heavy and expensive stage prop. On any reasonable sized stage it stopped being even a personal monitor to moment I was no longer standing directly in front of it.

 

So unless you can guarantee that your rig will be mic'd up and that mic feed actually used, or your are the kind of bass player who stands in front of their rig for the whole gig, there is little point agonising over what to take. Bring a decent pre-amp and go straight into the PA. There will probably be something on stage for the visuals anyway and I guarantee that none of the audience will have even the slightest idea that you're not using it.

[Boodang]

Not sure this is the solution you're looking for as it would require a rethink on your setup but.... the band and I have got so fed with the random quality of stage sounds that we've decided to take matters into our own hands as far as monitoring goes and have bought a digital stage box (xr18, nice and small) which we all plug into and which then feeds our iem's. Guaranteed sound and monitoring levels everytime as it'snot at the mercy of an engineer. Each band member basically has 2 feeds, one for our own stage box and one for foh. No amps involved and as we use an Ekit that's easily sorted and in the mix too. 

[King Tut]

I do a few festies. If it’s an Ampeg setup I’ll usually use that but if there’s any issues with the amp or I’m not familiar with it, I’ll use my Bugera Veyron MOSFET amp. Front end emulates an SVT and plenty of power. I Don’t use the  comp on it though - not mastered that yet!

[Mykesbass]

On 25/07/2023 at 19:07, acidbass said:

I'm not a fan of the Aguilar TH stuff personally. I could never get a good tone from a TH500 - always too much drive/distortion even with Drive control completely off. Obviously this might be a desirable tone depending on your style but for me it wasn't clean enough.

I thought I was in a minority of one with this opinion. Glad someone else feels the same!

[uk_lefty]

Last two festivals I've played:

First one, didn't bother taking an amp. As the first band on I didn't want to be asked to loan it out, so I went MXR DI pedal straight to PA and it sounded great. There were huge subs so I had to roll off the bass more than usual but that was ok. 

Second festival I asked one of the sound guys if I could DI from my pedal. A look of fear came across his face, we were delayed by a lightning strike elsewhere on site so I don't think there was time to faff around... I had to DI from the provided Line 6 Lowdown and it was absolute dog turd. All low end mush with no definition, even kicking in my fuzz pedal did next to nothing to alter the sound. 

Next time, I'm not asking, I'm just plugging the XLR into my pedal. Easier to get forgiveness than permission.

 

In short, always have at least a DI pedal you know and trust because festival backline can be absolute rubbish.

[Misowaki]

On 29/07/2023 at 09:09, BigRedX said:

"Festival" covers a wide variety of situations from playing on the back of a covered trailer to 50 people to Glastonbury and bigger.

 

Therefore there is no "one size fits all solution". However for all but the very smallest festivals I would expect the bass to be delivered by the PA and my rig to be at best for on-stage monitoring only. From personal experience, even the smaller festivals I have played unless my rig was being mic'd up (and that mic being used as the main feed for the bass guitar to the PA) my rig was little more than a big, heavy and expensive stage prop. On any reasonable sized stage it stopped being even a personal monitor to moment I was no longer standing directly in front of it.

 

So unless you can guarantee that your rig will be mic'd up and that mic feed actually used, or your are the kind of bass player who stands in front of their rig for the whole gig, there is little point agonising over what to take. Bring a decent pre-amp and go straight into the PA. There will probably be something on stage for the visuals anyway and I guarantee that none of the audience will have even the slightest idea that you're not using it.

Haven't seen a mic'd up bass cab in a while! 

Always DI and always fed back through a wedge or 2. On a Glasto thing I DI'd into a couple of wedges but that was for broadcast so didn't need the amp. I always prefer to have an amp behind me for a live show. Used the SVT 7 on all 3 gigs this weekend, no problem. Used with my Barefaced cab on two and the provided Ampeg 8x10 on the third. Think Lozz was right, there was some problem with that amp at SGP. Will probs get a Tonehammer for easy transport when I have the funds but I think the answer is to always bring my own head, keep it simple.

Appreciate the thoughts, thanks.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Misowaki

[snorkie635]

Love Tone Hammer amps - I have three (don't ask). My experience of them is only positive and it can do clean or dirty.

[BigRedX]

I've never understood the logic behind using your amp but someone else's cabs.

 

Firstly if you are still using a traditional amp and cabs rig, using different cabs will change your sound. You've probably spend good time and money working out the best amp and cab(s) combination, so why change it? If it's for convenience you're better of not using any amp or cabs.

 

In the days when I was still using a conventional backline the idea of putting my amp through some unknown cab(s) used to fill me with dread. I did it once at a festival where we were told that we would have to use the cabs supplied. I had to buy some additional speakon to jack leads in case the cabs only had jacks and it was just as well that I did. The cabs supplied were terrible, I had to turn my amp up considerably to compensate for low sensitivity compared with what I normally used, and spent a good part of the gig hoping that neither the cabs or my amp would fail as a result. I vowed never again to use someone else's cabs, and IMO anyone still doing this is a braver bassist than me.

[Lozz196]

For me the ideal was using my own amp with whatever cabs were provided, with my Sansamp in the line. The Sansamp DI`d to FOH so I knew audience getting what I wanted them to - assuming no desk-butchery - then as I was more familiar with how my amp worked I found it easier to eq to get a suitable onstage sound.

 

But if relying on the amp for DI`d sound then hooking it to an unfamiliar cab, well too many variables in that for me, do you go for great onstage sound but no idea what audience are getting or stick with good audience sound but rotten onstage sound.

[Leonard Smalls]

Tomorrow I'll be using the Rebellion-supplied Ampeg 8x10 and SVT, but FOH will be getting an XLR output from my Helix.

That way they'll be getting what I know, rather than trying to work out how to get the best sound out of an unknown amp/cab combo...

[Lozz196]

38 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Tomorrow I'll be using the Rebellion-supplied Ampeg 8x10 and SVT, but FOH will be getting an XLR output from my Helix.

That way they'll be getting what I know, rather than trying to work out how to get the best sound out of an unknown amp/cab combo...

Have a good ‘un, am extremely jealous!

[Leonard Smalls]

19 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Have a good ‘un

Cheers! I suspect I may be in a tiny minority using a phat Bootsy sound though...