Tell me about Echo

[Phil Starr]

Just that really, I'm not really an fx guy. I've been playing along to mp3's this morning through a desk into headphones and the bass was sounding really nice and I noticed I'd accidentally left some plate reverb on from switching out the vocal mic. Nothing dramatic but the bass did just sit nicely in the mix all morning.

 

So does anyone use Echo playing live and if so when/how. How about delay? Sorry if this is a newby question I know about speakers but almost nothing about bass effects. I'm normally just bass ->amp-> speaker or I occasionally let a SansAmp sprinkle some fairy dust lightly into my live sound.

[Newfoundfreedom]

I often use a bit of reverb to help thicken the sound and sit nice in the mix. Especially with ballad type stuff. I never really understood why reverb comes pre installed on most guitar amps, but hardly ever on bass amps. It's a great tool when used sparingly. 

[Waddo Soqable]

I've absolutely always got a bit of reverb on as a default, and will often add a little bit of chorus too. It adds a bit of 3D, colour, and sparkle if you want to call it that. Echo/delay can of course be mixed in with all this (without going too mad!)  it's a case of experiment, having a twiddle with some knobs and see what you think really.. 

I'd add that I will often use guitar fx rather than "bass" specific pedals, a useful one to me is the very old  ME50 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Waddo Soqable

[Franticsmurf]

When mixing a recording, a little reverb can help to bring the whole mix together. But it's a delicate balance and too much (a subjective phrase) can turn everything into mush. As a bassist I've never used reverb live (although I'm currently looking into that for certain songs where I want to soften the bass a bit while keeping it there in the mix - difficult to describe what I'm after - we play Sheryl Crow's version of 'Sweet Child' and I play a busy bass part based on the guitar part of her version and I'm right up the neck. Reverb helps bring the sound out without me having to turn up the volume). As a guitarist (yes, I know, sorry) I used reverb and delay on solos to fill the sound and hide any shortcomings (of which there were many) in my technique. 

 

I would love to introduce some syncopated delay into my playing but setting the delay time, even with tap tempo, doesn't always work and requires the rest of the band to be consistently spot on the tempo throughout the song. That never happens. 😄

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

When mixing a recording, a little reverb can help to bring the whole mix together. But it's a delicate balance and too much (a subjective phrase) can turn everything into mush. As a bassist I've never used reverb live (although I'm currently looking into that for certain songs where I want to soften the bass a bit while keeping it there in the mix - difficult to describe what I'm after - we play Sheryl Crow's version of 'Sweet Child' and I play a busy bass part based on the guitar part of her version and I'm right up the neck. Reverb helps bring the sound out without me having to turn up the volume). As a guitarist (yes, I know, sorry) I used reverb and delay on solos to fill the sound and hide any shortcomings (of which there were many) in my technique. 

 

I would love to introduce some syncopated delay into my playing but setting the delay time, even with tap tempo, doesn't always work and requires the rest of the band to be consistently spot on the tempo throughout the song. That never happens. 😄

 

Yes I've often found that's the main problem with delay. You need absolutely metronomic timing for it to work properly. As soon as anyone starts to drift it sounds awful. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Yes, a subtle reverb, more specifically a really subtle emulated plate reverb stacked into a subtle emulated spring reverb, is part of my basic "clean" tone.

 

It contributes to making the tone slightly fuller sounding and sort of gives an extra 3 dimensional depth to it.

 

Delay I use more as a special effect for certain parts, though set to a really short delay time and sufficiently low in the mix it can actually be used as a sort of always on subtle faux reverb, and some prefer this to a real reverb, as it tends to give a somewhat more clear effect than reverb, which basically consists of multiple very short, often EQ filtered, delays with slightly different delay times.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Franticsmurf]

50 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

sort of gives an extra 3 dimensional depth to it.

This is what I was trying (and failing) to describe. 😄

Edited July 18, 2023 by Franticsmurf

[fleabag]

No delay or reverb, but a smidge of chorus on all songs apart from 4 tracks, which i use a bit of flanger,  wah effect and 2 tracks of fretless with chorus

 

2 tracks where i use fretless has some chorus but only just a bit more than the tracks that only have smidge

 

The smidge of chorus is just to get a slight thickening, rather than to hear the chorus effect itself.  You dont know it's on till you turn it off

[itu]

A (very) little bit of reverb makes good for distorted (and fuzzistored?) sound. For me a little bit works fine (listen to Duffy's Mercy), and anything more is already a special effect.

 

My favourite unit is IE Nimbus, because of its filters.

[BigRedX]

I hardy ever use reverb as it tends to make what I play sound mushy and indistinct. However I use lots of delay always synchronised to the tempo of the song. This helps to fill out the sound in the band that's only drum machine, synthesiser, bass VI and vocals.

[MichaelDean]

I like lots of reverb and delay for ambient swells. And lots of reverb can be fun for filling stuff out when you've also got mountains of distortion/fuzz on and you want it to be a mushy wall of noise. The level of reverb I've got on at times would be ludicrous for most things 😅

[Baloney Balderdash]

7 minutes ago, MichaelDean said:

I like lots of reverb and delay for ambient swells. And lots of reverb can be fun for filling stuff out when you've also got mountains of distortion/fuzz on and you want it to be a mushy wall of noise. The level of reverb I've got on at times would be ludicrous for most things 😅

Reverb stacked into distortion or fuzz is a beautiful thing.

[uk_lefty]

I like a bit now and then! For fretless I find some reverb or delay essential, a bit like adding reverb to vocals, it just thickens it up nicely and brings out the best qualities of the sound. I was at a Marcus Miller clinic where he said he finds reverb on bass to be too muddy so prefers delay.... I mentioned that on here and got told "just cos he's a great player doesn't mean he knows anything about effects" (I think being one of the foremost bassists and producers means he at least has time to try a few things, perhaps!!). So now I use an Analog delay. I saw an Ian Alison video where he used delay into vibrato and that sounds good too. 

 

Where do I use it? A low amount of delay always on for fretless. For certain parts like when I have to do the opening of Seven Nation Army without any other instrumentation, if you listen to the high definition audio version of the original there's a whispy delay trail on it, I use it for some synth type lines that I copy in pop songs too. On top of that at home I use it just noodling around because it sounds good solo. I got a Joyo Analog delay for a good price second hand and it's holding up well.

[Phil Starr]

Thanks everyone. it's good to know that what I heard wasn't just an illusion. You all know that some days at the bass are just magic and others just a mirage that disappears when you look too closely. I really admire people who set up different sounds for each song but I'm never going to be able to concentrate on that live as I'm usually managing the PA. I do play in a duo though and am looking to fill out my sound.

 

Anyway this has been really helpful. I'm off to try Seven Nation Army with some plate reverb

[BigRedX]

30 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

I really admire people who set up different sounds for each song but I'm never going to be able to concentrate on that live as I'm usually managing the PA.

 

Programmable multi-effects and a couple of technical rehearsals in a decent sized room with your PA will sort that out completely.

[Baloney Balderdash]

57 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I like a bit now and then! For fretless I find some reverb or delay essential, a bit like adding reverb to vocals, it just thickens it up nicely and brings out the best qualities of the sound. I was at a Marcus Miller clinic where he said he finds reverb on bass to be too muddy so prefers delay.... I mentioned that on here and got told "just cos he's a great player doesn't mean he knows anything about effects" (I think being one of the foremost bassists and producers means he at least has time to try a few things, perhaps!!). So now I use an Analog delay. I saw an Ian Alison video where he used delay into vibrato and that sounds good too. 

 

Where do I use it? A low amount of delay always on for fretless. For certain parts like when I have to do the opening of Seven Nation Army without any other instrumentation, if you listen to the high definition audio version of the original there's a whispy delay trail on it, I use it for some synth type lines that I copy in pop songs too. On top of that at home I use it just noodling around because it sounds good solo. I got a Joyo Analog delay for a good price second hand and it's holding up well.

Yes, but just because it is the right choice for him doesn't mean it is for everyone.

 

There is no one ultimate way to mix music, and it will definitely depend on the specific musical context in question as well.

 

Yes, using delay instead of reverb does give a more clear effect, as I have already mentioned, but it also doesn't sound exactly like reverb, and it certainly doesn't mean it is the right choice for everything and everyone, personally I prefer a subtle reverb over delay on my bass.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Newfoundfreedom]

45 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

 

 

 I'm off to try Seven Nation Army 

 

You've gone and ruined the whole thread now. 😆

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

You've gone and ruined the whole thread now. 😆

oops

[uk_lefty]

2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Yes, but just because it is the right choice for him doesn't mean it is for everyone.

I fully understand that, it's not really the point I was making.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I love a bit of delay, it's one of my favourite effects. Obviously not for use all the time but I use it for occasional "One Of These Days" and "Brighton Rock" moments. Luckily my band gives me a lot of space to do stuff like this.

 

I have a Marshall Echohead which is a wonderful little pedal, lots of sounds in there. It's discontinued now but pops up on ebay for decent prices.