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Thomann post Brexit?

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Musicman pretty much only build to order (or at least that used to be the case), so if a store hasn't got one on order with them, there's going to be a fair wait.

 

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Well i've spoken to someone at Thomann, who has informed me that there have unfortunately been delays with goods being sent to the United Kingdom, he didn't elaborate. Despite wanting the bass i was looking at, i don't need it......it's only GAS, & i'm beginning to think there maybe too many unknowns at the moment to part with a huge wad of cash.

He did inform me that Thomann are looking at some sort of clearing service for UK customers to deal with fees etc, & they hoped in a few weeks to be able to show on their website the actual price including VAT, fees & any other add ons.

It may come too late for me if the left handed model i'm after sells out, but they clearly realise they are losing out on UK sales.

A shame really, in a pre-Brexit world the order would have already been placed 😞

PS If anyone does have any real life experience of buying an instrument from Thomann's post Brexit feel free to contribute, i'm easily swayed 👍

Edited by Graham A

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As a fellow lefty, if I was after a Sterling I'd grab it. It will be hard to find another one anywhere, and you're only looking at a slight increase in cost and some delay in delivery compared to pre Brexit. It sounds like Thomann's post sales service is still good if there are problems.

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7 minutes ago, pineweasel said:

As a fellow lefty, if I was after a Sterling I'd grab it. It will be hard to find another one anywhere, and you're only looking at a slight increase in cost and some delay in delivery compared to pre Brexit. It sounds like Thomann's post sales service is still good if there are problems.

I know, as a lefty you usually have to snap basses up when you see them. It's usually a case you snooze, you lose.

I really am on the horns of a dilemma!! 😂😭

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5 minutes ago, Graham A said:

I know, as a lefty you usually have to snap basses up when you see them. It's usually a case you snooze, you lose.

I really am on the horns of a dilemma!! 😂😭

At least you have the option. I want to buy a lefty Stingray Special but they're only available from the US at vast expense.

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I'm left handed and I started playing bass way back when left handed, then about 3 months in I made the choice to go right handed as there were far far FAR more righties out there than lefties. Definitely glad I made that decision!! 

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1 minute ago, binky_bass said:

I'm left handed and I started playing bass way back when left handed, then about 3 months in I made the choice to go right handed as there were far far FAR more righties out there than lefties. Definitely glad I made that decision!! 

Wise move 👍

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17 hours ago, Al Krow said:

That is a really good question! Calling @Steve Browning

HMRC say this (in guidance updated on 31/12/20) - love the way the form still has a Customs & Excise number!!

There are links to further information from the form link. Nice and easy eh?

Claims for rejected imports

You can claim repayment or remission on goods imported from outside the UK when:

  • you’ve rejected the goods because at the time of declaring them to a customs procedure they’re:
    • defective
    • damaged before being cleared by customs
    • not compliant with the terms of the contract you imported them under
  • they’re the same goods from the original customs declaration
  • you’ve not used any goods, other than the minimum necessary to establish they were defective or did not comply with the contract
  • you’ve not sold the goods after finding them to be defective, damaged or not compliant with the contract
  • you’ll re-export or destroy the goods

You cannot make a claim if you already knew the goods were damaged or defective when the contract for sale was made.

You must submit form C&E1179 at least 48 hours before the goods are packed for re-export or destruction.

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3 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

HMRC say this (in guidance updated on 31/12/20) - love the way the form still has a Customs & Excise number!!

There are links to further information from the form link. Nice and easy eh?

Claims for rejected imports

You can claim repayment or remission on goods imported from outside the UK when:

  • you’ve rejected the goods because at the time of declaring them to a customs procedure they’re:
    • defective
    • damaged before being cleared by customs
    • not compliant with the terms of the contract you imported them under
  • they’re the same goods from the original customs declaration
  • you’ve not used any goods, other than the minimum necessary to establish they were defective or did not comply with the contract
  • you’ve not sold the goods after finding them to be defective, damaged or not compliant with the contract
  • you’ll re-export or destroy the goods

You cannot make a claim if you already knew the goods were damaged or defective when the contract for sale was made.

You must submit form C&E1179 at least 48 hours before the goods are packed for re-export or destruction.

Thanks @Steve Browning

More red tape & form filling....what a suprise!! 😂

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Thanks very much Steve. I've just had a quick look at the HMRC website and that is a LOT of effort, particularly if the VAT is say £20 or less.

Hmmm...looking like another BIG reason to go with UK retailers on new goods then if there is a chance the goods are damaged or turn out to be not what we want, unless Thomann are prepared to deal with VAT refund side of things on returns.

Edited by Al Krow

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Just now, Al Krow said:

Thanks very much Steve. I've just had a quick look at the HMRC website and that is a LOT of effort, particularly if the VAT is say £20 or less.

Hmmm...looking like another BIG reason to go with UK retailers then if there is chance the goods are damaged or just now what we want, unless Thomann are prepared to deal with VAT refund side of things.

Maybe get them to dismantle the item and sell it in a number of small packages at £135 or less.

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Just now, Steve Browning said:

Maybe get them to dismantle the item and sell it in a number of small packages at £135 or less.

Lol!

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So in summary:

We have 20% extra VAT on used goods from the EU

We have the risk of not recovering the 20% VAT (or red tape / hassle) on new goods if we are likely to want to return them from EU retailers.

For me that means:

- looking to buy used goods from UK musos and stores; 

- using Andertons, PMT, Gear4Music etc. (rather than Thomann) for new goods.

 

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7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So in summary:

We have 20% extra VAT on used goods from the EU

We have the risk of not recovering the 20% VAT (or red tape / hassle) on new goods if we are likely to want to return them from EU retailers.

For me that means:

- looking to buy used goods from UK musos and stores; 

- using Andertons, PMT, Gear4Music etc. (rather than Thomann) for new goods.

 

I think that's a fair summary. The big difference is in the 2nd hand market (and increases the cost for buyers, in the EU, of UK stuff).

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18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So in summary:

We have 20% extra VAT on used goods from the EU

We have the risk of not recovering the 20% VAT (or red tape / hassle) on new goods if we are likely to want to return them from EU retailers.

For me that means:

- looking to buy used goods from UK musos and stores; 

- using Andertons, PMT, Gear4Music etc. (rather than Thomann) for new goods.

 

Sadly, that's the way i'm starting to feel about it 😟

 

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I'll still be getting wide Minatour straps from Thomann - likelihood of getting damaged in the post is small and I already know I like them! 😊

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Hi All

Just a quick heads-up on my own experience today - UPS man came to the door with my parcel from Thomann and requested for charges to be paid (import duty, VAT and transaction handling charge) - He couldn't hand over the  parcel till I pay the charges (cash to the delivery man or on-line by card)

I ordered parts from Thomann to the value of approx £150 and got stung for £51 charges. Totally forgot we're not in EU anymore. Thomann prices not quite the bargain they seemed!

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The only downside to buying in the UK is that of choice. In the case of the OP there are likely no left hand US Sterlings for sale anywhere in the UK. MM are not delivering anything as stock in 2021 (that was the answer I had from a UK retailer when enquiring about a bass in a finish they did not have in stock). Same dilemma I have/had - I’m hoping as all the colours say discontinued on the MM website that 2021 colours come out - more choice of Sterling colours, lighter hardware but keep the pickups and preamp the same and I’d be interested. However, if UK retailers get more UK customers from those who won’t buy from Europe, maybe they’ll have correspondingly fewer European customers? Hard to tell, I don’t know how much exporting is done by the likes of PMT, Andertons, GuitarGuitar etc. If they’re not importing significantly more volume it’s unlikely the choice will increase.

In any case there’s still not likely to be US Sterlings available here because there never were many if any sent into the UK. If MM have truly moved to the custom build only model it could be months or more to get your chosen bass - and no ability to return as it will be a custom order. Ho hum...

Edited by FDC484950
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Just now, Al Krow said:

I'll still be getting wide Minatour straps from Thomann - likelihood of getting damaged in the post is small and I already know I like them! 😊

Don't blame you @Al Krow, if you like them etc there's minimal risk.

Being left handed you can rarely try basses before you buy, so i rely on the ease of return to minimise the risk of not gelling with it.

In the case of the Sterling i was looking at if it was damaged or i didn't get on with it i would be chasing the best part of £340 with no guarentee of getting it back!! 😮

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8 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

The only downside to buying in the UK is that of choice. In the case of the OP there are likely no left hand US Sterlings for sale anywhere in the UK. MM are not delivering anything as stock in 2021 (that was the answer I had from a UK retailer when enquiring about a bass in a finish they did not have in stock). Same dilemma I have/had - I’m hoping as all the colours say discontinued on the MM website that 2021 colours come out - more choice of Sterling colours, lighter hardware but keep the pickups and preamp the same and I’d be interested. However, if UK retailers get more UK customers from those who won’t buy from Europe, maybe they’ll have correspondingly fewer European customers? Hard to tell, I don’t know how much exporting is done by the likes of PMT, Anderson’s, GuitarGuitar etc. If they’re not importing significantly more volume it’s unlikely the choice will increase.

In any case there’s still not likely to be US Sterlings available here because there never were many if any sent into the UK. If MM have truly moved to the custom build only model it could be months or more to get your chosen bass - and no ability to return as it will be a custom order. Ho hum...

Looks like i could be sticking with the basses i've got.......but GAS does terrible things to a person!! 😂

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37 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

The only downside to buying in the UK is that of choice. In the case of the OP there are likely no left hand US Sterlings for sale anywhere in the UK. MM are not delivering anything as stock in 2021 (that was the answer I had from a UK retailer when enquiring about a bass in a finish they did not have in stock). Same dilemma I have/had - I’m hoping as all the colours say discontinued on the MM website that 2021 colours come out - more choice of Sterling colours, lighter hardware but keep the pickups and preamp the same and I’d be interested. However, if UK retailers get more UK customers from those who won’t buy from Europe, maybe they’ll have correspondingly fewer European customers? Hard to tell, I don’t know how much exporting is done by the likes of PMT, Anderson’s, GuitarGuitar etc. If they’re not importing significantly more volume it’s unlikely the choice will increase.

In any case there’s still not likely to be US Sterlings available here because there never were many if any sent into the UK. If MM have truly moved to the custom build only model it could be months or more to get your chosen bass - and no ability to return as it will be a custom order. Ho hum...

Agree. I am also concerned that we could end up with higher prices. I can imagine that Thomann kept GG/Andertons/PMT on their toes and with them out of the equation (or at least being less competitive due to higher prices and hassle), the big three have even less of an incentive to offer good (for us) prices. Further, I remember reading that they also have or had a buying consortium called GAP, which isn't good news to us consumers either. 

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I was looking at replacement Jazz pickups yesterday and a set that cost £130 plus here are up for £79 at Thomson. I don’t know how the charges are worked but even factoring them in that still looks a deal.

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4 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I was looking at replacement Jazz pickups yesterday and a set that cost £130 plus here are up for £79 at Thomson. I don’t know how the charges are worked but even factoring them in that still looks a deal.

Yeah - and with pups the likelihood of damage in the post must be pretty low.

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1 hour ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

Agree. I am also concerned that we could end up with higher prices. I can imagine that Thomann kept GG/Andertons/PMT on their toes and with them out of the equation (or at least being less competitive due to higher prices and hassle), the big three have even less of an incentive to offer good (for us) prices. Further, I remember reading that they also have or had a buying consortium called GAP, which isn't good news to us consumers either. 

One of the biggest negative impact on margins for retailers comes from returns. So if we end up only buying stuff from Thomann that we know for sure we really want rather than "trying before we commit" then, perversely, this could actually work out in Thomann's favour.

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