Power consumption on rehearsal space

[Dan_Nailed]

Thought I'd ask for some advice here as am currently embroiled in a feud with our rehearsal room landlord over electricity bills!

To cut a long story short the landlord brought us up a £650 bill for 2 years usage the week before Xmas (he reads the meters as each band room has a sub meter from the supply). Our usage was at 3711 units for 2 years, works out at 35 units a week. All we have plugged in is my Bass 400+, 2 Engl Fireballs, a Soundcraft Mixer, 750W Cloud power amp and the drummers trigger brain. We rehearse in 2 hour stretches 2-3 days a week, 6 hours total max. We have a dehumidifier running 24/7 as the building has developed damp over the years. Lightbulbs are 11W energy efficient jobbies, six of them.

From what I can gather on the net, a 2 bedroom house with occupants will use about 35 units a week, and apparently our 300 sq ft room is drawing the same?

Edited March 12, 2009 by Dan_Nailed

[Buzz]

Er, you're paying for use of the rehearsal rooms yes? Unless it's been implicitily stated by either party that the leccy bills will be paid for by the band, it would be assumed to be part of the charge for hiring the room for it's purpose.

In other words, it isn't your problem to pay the bills, and it's certainly none of your concern. I could have the wrong end of the stick if you've agreed to pay 'leccy on top of the rehearsal space fee's.

You may want to check how he's pricing the units, as I reckon he's gone online for the current rate and charged you for the 'leccy that way, rather than keeping track of previous prices and working out the value you owe per session.

And for reference, I paid ~£350 just for last quater in a house of 5 students, computer games tech students at that.

[Stingray5]

You could try contacting the electricity supply company he uses.
Give them the same details you posted and see if they agree with his estimate or not for the two year period.

[Dan_Nailed]

I did contact the company but they can't give me any specific info concerning the account due to data protection - the supply is in his name.

Also I haven't signed the lease, this room was taken on before I joined the band but I assume there's at least a verbal contract between the drummer and landlord agreeing for the band to pay the electricity, if there wasn't it would have come up by now. But I'll double check with my drummer, could be a good fact to point out!

[Hamster]

The electricity company should be able to give you a power consumption/cost estimate without infringing data protection.

When my house was flooded I had to have dehumidifiers installed for weeks. They really suck up the juice, so it could be that unit?

If electricity is .15 per Kw/hour and the dehumidifier is 1000w, it's going to cost .15p each hour = £3.60 per day = £25.20 per week = £1310.40 per annum to run it 24/7 + VAT!

[Hot Tub]

Every piece of equipment should have a rating plate. That's a little sticker somewhere which displays a fair amount of information, among which is the maximum power comsumption for that unit. Add 'em all up*, and from there it's fairly straightforward to calculate your total power usage.

* Be sure to add up in the same units, ie. convert W to kW or you'll end up with some awfully big numbers!

[bassbloke]

Has he shown you the bill? £650 for 3711 units works out at 17p a unit. That's incredibly expensive even for a domestic tariff. My home tariff is around 9p per peak unit and my work pays 7p per minute for peak use.

If you want to calculate usage for yourself it's quite easy

add up total watts used

so 400W for Mesa, 80 or 100 or whatever each for the powerballs, 750 for the power amp and I reckon factor in another 150W for sundries (brain, etc...) I'd assume your dehumidifer is around 250W

(400+80+80+750+150+250)/1000 gives you the total in Kw/h

# of hours * units * cost per unit tells you what you should be paying

[tombboy]

I make that £87.60 for the two year period with my crap maths.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='432104' date='Mar 12 2009, 07:40 AM']Has he shown you the bill? £650 for 3711 units works out at 17p a unit. That's incredibly expensive even for a domestic tariff. My home tariff is around 9p per peak unit and my work pays 7p per minute for peak use.

If you want to calculate usage for yourself it's quite easy

add up total watts used

so 400W for Mesa, 80 or 100 or whatever each for the powerballs, 750 for the power amp and I reckon factor in another 150W for sundries (brain, etc...) I'd assume your dehumidifer is around 250W

(400+80+80+750+150+250)/1000 gives you the total in Kw/h

# of hours * units * cost per unit tells you what you should be paying[/quote]

The dehumidifier is on 24/7 remember.

[dlloyd]

If the dehumidifier is on 24/7 and is 250W, you're talking:

0.25 kW * 24 hours * 365 days * 2 years

= 4380 kWh

So the amount used doesn't seem too outlandish.

The question that needs to be asked is how he's converted the cost from kWh into a bill for you. Energy prices have not remained constant over the last two years, and the bill really should have been broken down to reflect this (unless he's been on a fixed tarriff for the last two years at that price, which seems unlikely).

There are rules on the maximum resale price of electricity that are set by the Electricity Act 1989, as ammended by the Utilities Act 2000.

You might want to contact Energywatch, who should be able to advise you on this.

[dlloyd]

The other question that needs to be asked is why he waited two years to bill you, and if it is legal to do so.

[thedontcarebear]

2 years? He gets a bill every 2 years then?

[xgsjx]

Is the dehumidifier yours? Why are you paying for the dampness if it's not your building? You should charge him for keeping the dampness under control & if you pay a rate as well as lekky then you & your band are being taken for a ride!

[Musky]

[quote name='Dan_Nailed' post='432081' date='Mar 12 2009, 01:47 AM']From what I can gather on the net, a 2 bedroom house with occupants will use about 35 units a week, and apparently our 300 sq ft room is drawing the same?[/quote]

Hmm...

I think I'd take take figure with a pinch of salt really. I've just had my bill in for a 1 bedroom flat (with gas heating and just me and the girlfriend in there) and it works out at 44 units a week. Maybe I'm just wasting a lot of 'lecky somewhere?

[tayste_2000]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='432104' date='Mar 12 2009, 07:40 AM']Has he shown you the bill? £650 for 3711 units works out at 17p a unit. That's incredibly expensive even for a domestic tariff. My home tariff is around 9p per peak unit and my work pays 7p per minute for peak use.

If you want to calculate usage for yourself it's quite easy

add up total watts used

so 400W for Mesa, 80 or 100 or whatever each for the powerballs, 750 for the power amp and I reckon factor in another 150W for sundries (brain, etc...) I'd assume your dehumidifer is around 250W

(400+80+80+750+150+250)/1000 gives you the total in Kw/h

# of hours * units * cost per unit tells you what you should be paying[/quote]

If it's in a mill or similar building it's generally on industrial power or something of a similar name which is more expensive mine is 14p a unit.

[Dan_Nailed]

Just to clarify, the building supply comes in in 3 phase power, which we don't use as we don't have a compressor running in our band room! These three meters are then further split into another 3 meters per band room(of which there are 7). He then reads the meters and sub divides the usage and sends us his own bills, obviously only one of the three sub meters attached to our room actually move, the rest are all zeroed. As such the company wouldn't be able to give me any information on our unit, all they see is 3 meters.

When we got our last one, which was Jan 2007, it was £390 for 2 years worth. After that we started turning everything off at the wall and installed energy efficient lightbulbs, and started rehearsing less (not for electricity purposes it just suited us more) and the new bill was £650.34. The unit price on the bill he brought is 17.53p. I brought that up and he was saying "Well I actually get charged nearly 20p per unit as I have carbon tax blah blah" like he was doing us a favour. He's on British Gas so it wouldn't surprise me if he was paying an extortionate rate. We asked then to bring us bills quarterly which he did not not, and he admitted that this was his fault.

The stickler for me is the amount of units. Did a reading last night and on average we've used 38 units a week since December 9th. That works out at £6.60ish a week - I know people who run their houses on prepayment meters for that much.

The dehumidifier could indeed be the cuplrit but he blames us for using it saying we don't need it, but if we turn it off for say two weeks, depending on the weather we'll come in and there will be moisture on the drum kit and cases.

This is all on top of the fact that he's charging us £8.66 per square foot of room in rent (£50 per week) whereas most places charge between £2 and £6. I've been pushing for a move for a while or a rent reduction and this could be the stickler. We move rooms, pay less rent and won't need to run a dehumidifier all the time! Still until we find a new place we'll have to deal with this bloke.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Dan_Nailed

[bass_ferret]

Well electricity and gas prices are up and down like a whore's drawers but its still a lot more expensive than it was 2 years ago. You have 2 choices, pay up or move out.

[Dan_Nailed]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='432905' date='Mar 12 2009, 09:23 PM']You have 2 choices, pay up or move out.[/quote]

Not if it's wrong.

[bass_ferret]

What does it say in the contract you have with him? If there is no contract he can charge what he likes.

[xgsjx]

Hopefully if there's no contract you'll not be legally tied to paying either!

[Dan_Nailed]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='433217' date='Mar 13 2009, 08:05 AM']What does it say in the contract you have with him? If there is no contract he can charge what he likes.[/quote]


Actually he can't, due to the amended Utilities Act 2000, as of 1st January 2003 landlords can't re-sell utilities to tenants at a price higher than they've paid. This was the first thing Energywatch told me!

[TimR]

Get a timer socket for the Dehum unit.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackspur-BB-TS201-DAY-TIMER-SOCKET/dp/B0012UR3UC/ref=sr_1_6/279-4579110-2964046?ie=UTF8&s=diy&qid=1236983115&sr=8-6"]24/7 Timer Socket[/url]

[josh3184]

if he doesn't have any details other than your phone numbers then do a runner

[thepurpleblob]

A quick Google search turned up that DeLongi say that their dehumidifiers cost 2p per hour to run approx. Doing the math, that works out at £350 over two years, so I think the figure you have been hit with isn't out of the question. I'd be a bit pissed off that it took him two years to get round to billing you. But... it's a bit like when the council screws up the council tax - they just say "you knew you had to pay it so why did you spend the money?".

I would express great surprise and ask him for the calibration certificate for the meter. When he doesn't have one, ask for the cost of the whole place for the last two years which should give you a clue.

[Dan_Nailed]

Cheers for all the advice, I was thinking about a timer for the dehumidifier...maybe run it 8 hours a day instead of 24 hours a day? It's only if we leave it OFF that after a week we notice the start of damp. Also on the doing a runner front, he doesn't actually have any way to trace us! Obviously that's a last resort as we need to rehearse.

And he did agree two years ago to start bringing us quarterly bills...he just never bothered and has admitted that as his fault.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Dan_Nailed