Kev Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 why dont 100 of us make a generous donation to basschat for £1000, and then the thumb bass is given out as a free prize to one of the people who donated, and then basschat can donate the money to the thumb bass owner as a thankyou..... see, stupid as it may seem, there are ways round these kind of things. Why is it different doing it for charity, which we'v already done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'd be in for one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Go on then - for a tenner I might actually get on with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLightyear Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Great idea but I think there needs to be some sort of mechanism for making sure that people who order a ticket pay their tenner, otherwise pretty quickly your bass is only worth £900. This is no to say people intend to not pay up etc, its just that even with people of the best intentions (as I think seems to be everyone on BC) these things have a habit of not adding up to the pledged total. Anyone have any idea how this might be best done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='MythSte' post='378281' date='Jan 12 2009, 09:27 PM']I'm not sure this even has to be called a raffle... We're just pledging money to this man and hes offering a draw for a bass at the end of it...[/quote] Well, in a certain sense it doesn't matter what you decided to call it, but how it would be construed at law - in line with a definition contained in the relevant legislation. The legislation also deals with bingo, whist drives, bridge evenings, among other situations. For good or for bad, the State has decided that it is in the interests of the general public to regulate betting and gaming (gaming including lotteries, raffles, bingo, etc), for the protection of the general public and the financial regulation of the sector. [quote name='BassManKev' post='378295' date='Jan 12 2009, 09:37 PM']Why is it different doing it for charity, which we'v already done?[/quote] As you specifically state, for charity. Where all funds raised are given as a donation to a registered charity this is not for the private gain of the person (or persons) organising the lottery, raffle, bingo, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 yeah but the person organising the raffle here isnt getting any gain out of it, he is getting £1000 for a bass worth £1000, no profit whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='BassManKev' post='378333' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:04 PM']yeah but the person organising the raffle here isnt getting any gain out of it, he is getting £1000 for a bass worth £1000, no profit whatsoever[/quote] The statutory definition of private gain is wider than the definition of profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I would be up for a ticket if it comes off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee650 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Aye illl definately pay a tenner for a ticket, ive fancied petes thumb for a while, funny i was only just wondering to myself what he,s doing with it the other day lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='noelk27' post='378349' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:17 PM']The statutory definition of private gain is wider than the definition of profit.[/quote] I think Noelk27 is probably right here. Although I'm a lawyer, I don't specialise in gaming law, which is why I PM'd Ped offering to discuss the point with a colleague who does specialise in that area (I didn't want to scupper the idea at birth by posting in the thread). What its called and how many tickets are sold, are unlikely to make a difference I'm afraid. It may simply be a case of getting a Gaming Licence, but its worth checking the point out. Will be speaking to my colleague tomorrow and will get back to Ped when I've done so. Sorry - don't shoot the messenger - I personally think its a great idea and will be buying a ticket or several myself if we can get it OK'd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockholm Syndrome Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Oh crap..I would definitely have payed 1000 quids for this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecowboy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Im in for this. However i fear the "drawing" of the ticket via name in a hat isn't the best way to go about things, how about the names of everybody who's paid is written or printed on the back of 2 decks of playing cards, everycard could be shuffled properly laid face down on a table and then the winner picked at absolute random, it would be easy to film and put on say you tube to keep things above board and legit. I'm not saying that people are going to ever rig this but your going to have to cover all corners, when 99 people who don't win start shouting a fix! As i say i'm in, but when a grand of peoples money is up in the air, keep it professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 i think the forum administrator picking a piece of paper from a hat will be just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecowboy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='BassManKev' post='378391' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:39 PM']i think the forum administrator picking a piece of paper from a hat will be just fine [/quote] Sweet dude, lets hope so! Best Of Luck if you're in! at least we can find solace in the fact that a bcer is going to be giving it a new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='spacecowboy' post='378396' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:44 PM']Sweet dude, lets hope so! Best Of Luck if you're in! at least we can find solace in the fact that a bcer is going to be giving it a new home.[/quote] haha, 100/1 or not, with my luck i could be the only person in the raffle and lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='simon1964' post='378367' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:28 PM']Sorry - don't shoot the messenger - I personally think its a great idea and will be buying a ticket or several myself if we can get it OK'd![/quote] If you have access to the appropriate sources, it might be worth doing a LexisNexis/Westlaw search - I seem to recall an instance in England in recent years (the last ten or so) where some enterprising individual managed to “sell” heritable property by organising a species of “lottery” - although this may have been designed as a form of “auction”. Unfortunately I don’t have access to those resources these days. Similarly, I don’t think it’s a bad idea, just simply highlighting a few of the issues pertinent to the area of gaming and lotteries regulation. Beyond licences, there will be issues of proper accounting (the local authority has the right to request an accounting) and income and taxation issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinAndy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 So while a lottery might be considered illegal, would there be any legal issues if say, 100 people decided to club together to buy a bass, and the person who got to keep it at their house was randomly drawn from a hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='GremlinAndy' post='378410' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:56 PM']So while a lottery might be considered illegal, would there be any legal issues if say, 100 people decided to club together to buy a bass, and the person who got to keep it at their house was randomly drawn from a hat.[/quote] I think you've just defined what a lottery is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='spacecowboy' post='378389' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:38 PM']Im in for this. However i fear the "drawing" of the ticket via name in a hat isn't the best way to go about things, how about the names of everybody who's paid is written or printed on the back of 2 decks of playing cards, everycard could be shuffled properly laid face down on a table and then the winner picked at absolute random, it would be easy to film and put on say you tube to keep things above board and legit. I'm not saying that people are going to ever rig this but your going to have to cover all corners, when 99 people who don't win start shouting a fix! As i say i'm in, but when a grand of peoples money is up in the air, keep it professional.[/quote] Yeah I do agree with this – I think more thought would have to go into the “drawing” process to make sure that the people who entered are satisfied that it has been a fair process and even if they don’t agree it’s been a fair process there’s some form of evidence that’ll prove beyond reasonable doubt that the draw was genuine and completely fair. I’d have thought that the best way to organise the drawing of something like this would be at one of the larger bashes maybe, but then I guess that the time scale may play quite a large factor in this not happening. People will obviously be handing over money before the draw has been made, but it’s not like they’re going to be protected by a contract but much rather just good faith that i) the draw will happen, ii) the draw will be fair, iii) the bass will get sent out, etc... This is a great idea but it seems to me that, regardless of legalities, there’s a lot to sort out and confirm. However, I'd be in for a tenner if it does happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Nice idea & a very different way of selling your instrument. Do you work in marketing or something? Count me in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyl Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 A ticket over here too please - great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='benwhiteuk' post='378427' date='Jan 12 2009, 11:06 PM']Yeah I do agree with this – I think more thought would have to go into the “drawing” process to make sure that the people who entered are satisfied that it has been a fair process and even if they don’t agree it’s been a fair process there’s some form of evidence that’ll prove beyond reasonable doubt that the draw was genuine and completely fair. I’d have thought that the best way to organise the drawing of something like this would be at one of the larger bashes maybe, but then I guess that the time scale may play quite a large factor in this not happening. People will obviously be handing over money before the draw has been made, but it’s not like they’re going to be protected by a contract but much rather just good faith that i) the draw will happen, ii) the draw will be fair, iii) the bass will get sent out, etc... This is a great idea but it seems to me that, regardless of legalities, there’s a lot to sort out and confirm. However, I'd be in for a tenner if it does happen [/quote] Guys, I'm happy to go to whatever lengths people think is fair and square (within reason of course) which is why I contacted Ped to start off with. I wanted to get the draw done elsewhere so I retain impartiality. He was the one that suggested he'd stay out of it and perform the draw, which I'm all for. I don't think any of us here would question Ped's integrity. Equally, I have met enough people on here that hopefully would vouch for me being honourable, fair and square, etc. I've travelled the length of the country and back in a day at my own cost to swap & sell equipment, etc., so although I'll obviously gain from this, I'm certainly not in it for ripping anyone off at all. Just ask any one from bassbunny, yorks5stringer, lee650, rasta, machines and possibly a few others. Clearly I want to sell my lovely Warwick, as it's a shame to have a bass this nice that's not being used any longer, and as I said, I don't want to sell it for less than I honestly think it's worth. And I think if we can cover the legality of it, I think it'd be a great way for people to start moving some of the high enders that just aren't moving as nobody's got deep pockets any longer. Cheers, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='378435' date='Jan 12 2009, 11:10 PM']Nice idea & a very different way of selling your instrument. Do you work in marketing or something? Count me in [/quote] Ha ha, no not at all. Although I'm starting to think of auditioning for The Apprentice this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 i think a video of ped picking the winning ticket would be good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ari Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 count me in for a ticket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts