TrevorG Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Sometime I play with a REALLY loud guitarist that calls for a lot of wattage from me. Sometimes I just bring the combo without the extension cab which is loud enough but sometimes I want more. So I turn up on the amp (but my Spector has very high output before it even gets to the compressor or anything else). If I boost the EQ I set the gain quite low to avoid any flashing lights but how much lighting up of the clip warning is OK? None, occasional, or can we let the first beat of every bar burn a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jposega Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Clipping doesn't hurt anything other than tweeters, and they'll sound nasty long before they should blow. What you, and your (idiot) guitar'd player should be concerned about is hearing loss. I'd say ask Pete Townshend, but you wouldn't get an answer, he can't hear the question. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorG Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Actually Bill I can disagree with some authority here(for once), Pete's hearing problem's seem to be on one side. If you catch the right side he answers. At least that's how it was when I worked with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, TrevorG said: Actually Bill I can disagree with some authority here(for once), Pete's hearing problem's seem to be on one side. If you catch the right side he answers. At least that's how it was when I worked with him. The burning question is whether his hearing loss is on the same side as was The Ox 's back line... I wouldn't like to hear clipping at a gig. If your guitarist is as loud as you say, I'd probably leave. Edited June 25, 2018 by SpondonBassed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorG Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 2 hours ago, SpondonBassed said: The burning question is whether his hearing loss is on the same side as was The Ox 's back line... I wouldn't like to hear clipping at a gig. If your guitarist is as loud as you say, I'd probably leave. You're right and we have been talking the guitarist down but I don't "hear" clipping just see the light occasionally flickernwhich is why I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I'd always bring my "big rig" if I play with guys like this. You need to balance the sound of the band. If he is this loud then you have to be as well. I played with a similar guitarist yesterday and I brought both cabs, started with the volume controls at noon, expecting to creep up a little from there when needed. My Aguilar TH500 used to clip with this guy (clipping with this amp doesn't cause a problem) now my AG700 doesn't. I wouldn't touch the EQ if you are regularly clipping, I'd turn your bass down and let the amp deal with the volume. If you are still clipping or you can't hear your rig over the rest of the band, your rig is telling you that you need to upgrade to something bigger. When you are playing as loud as you say, it's time to get some effective ear protection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, chris_b said: I'd always bring my "big rig" if I play with guys like this. You need to balance the sound of the band. If he is this loud then you have to be as well. I played with a similar guitarist yesterday and I brought both cabs, started with the volume controls at noon, expecting to creep up a little from there when needed. My Aguilar TH500 used to clip with this guy (clipping with this amp doesn't cause a problem) now my AG700 doesn't. I wouldn't touch the EQ if you are regularly clipping, I'd turn your bass down and let the amp deal with the volume. If you are still clipping or you can't hear your rig over the rest of the band, your rig is telling you that you need to upgrade to something bigger. When you are playing as loud as you say, it's time to get some effective ear protection. Unless it meant not being able to pay my mortgage I wouldn't be "upgrading" my amp, "bringing my big rig" or getting "effective hearing protection", I'd be leaving the band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: Unless it meant not being able to pay my mortgage I wouldn't be "upgrading" my amp, "bringing my big rig" or getting "effective hearing protection", I'd be leaving the band. That's a choice people make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 59 minutes ago, TrevorG said: You're right and we have been talking the guitarist down but I don't "hear" clipping just see the light occasionally flickernwhich is why I asked. My knowledge of clipping lights is limited but I'd have thought they were set up to warn you that you are about to reach the amp's limitations before they are audible. If you go on that principle then, as with VU metering, you'd aim to hit the light briefly but only at the loudest points in your performance. That said, you'd be okay with a touch of a glimmer on The One in each bar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 There's no standard for clipping lights so it would be hard to say how much clipping would be acceptable. Heed Bill's advice about tweeters/horns. If the amp is genuinely clipping all that extra power pretty much goes through the horns. Some clipping lights are on the input stages rather than monitoring the output. That makes it easy to set up a little distortion and then adjust your levels with the same level of 'grind' at all volume levels. If you have an input level control (sometimes called gain) and a master volume try turning the master volume right up and the input level down and see if the light goes out, or even turn the volume on your bass down and the master up. If that is the case your input stages were overloading and the amp actually wsn't giving you a little more power to play with. Worth a try anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorG Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 I have tried most of that but haven't really heard much difference in volume. I think my clipping light is monitoring the output as it can increase as I turn up EQ. I have a Markbass CMD K1 which has a 1” coil compression tweeter and there's a piezo tweeter on my 102P cab so Bill's advice has got me a little nervous. Don't get me wrong I can keep up with my loud guitarist at levels that don't clip but am trying to assess how much more I can turn it up before the clipping is excessive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 There's no standard in amp design for the clipping but i'll leave you with the an idea of what most manufacturers state about clip lights: There's nothing wrong in getting it to come on from time to time but make sure it also turns off. When you get the light constantly on it's time to back off the gain a bit before you can harm the amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 hours ago, SpondonBassed said: I wouldn't like to hear clipping at a gig. You probably hear it at every gig. It's what constitutes everything from what bass players call 'grind' to what guitar players call 'sweetness', let alone anything involving overdrive. Quote When you get the light constantly on it's time to back off the gain a bit before you can harm the amp. Clipping can't harm an amp. A distortion pedal is an amp in a state of perpetual clipping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy515 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Am I not correct with both my Eden Metro combo and my EBS HD350 that I set the volume on bass to max, on the amp to zero and then feed in the gain until when playing my loudest notes (silently ) the clipping light just flickers. Then I adjust the amp volume up as required. Edited June 25, 2018 by Paddy515 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrendall Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: perpetual clipping. Good name for a band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: (...) Clipping can't harm an amp. A distortion pedal is an amp in a state of perpetual clipping. I wasn't talking about preamp clip, i was refering to power stage clip. Preamp clip is just distortion, power amp clip is what can harm an amp. But now that you mention i think i may have missunderstood the OP. He may be talking about preamp clip. edit: english is not my main language Edited June 25, 2018 by Ghost_Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Paddy515 said: Am I not correct with both my Eden Metro combo and my EBS HD350 that I set the volume on bass to max, on the amp to zero and then feed in the gain until when playing my loudest notes (silently ) the clipping light just flickers. Then I adjust the amp volume up as required. That's how I've always done it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 if it's preamp clipping, as much as you like, (🤘) power amp clipping is to be avoided at all costs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Ghost_Bass said: I wasn't talking about preamp clip, i was refering to power stage clip. Preamp clip is just distortion, power amp clip is what can harm an amp. But now that you mention i think i may have missunderstood the OP. He may be talking about preamp clip. Clipping is clipping, with both cause and effect being the same, no matter where it occurs in the signal chain. The only reason to have a clipping indicator is to warn the user of the potential for tweeter damage. Ever wonder why guitar amps don't have clip indicators? For one thing they don't use tweeters. For another they're usually clipping. Quote power amp clipping is to be avoided at all costs though. Why? Edited June 25, 2018 by Bill Fitzmaurice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Clipping is clipping, with both cause and effect being the same, no matter where it occurs in the signal chain. The only reason to have a clipping indicator is to warn the user of the potential for tweeter damage. Ever wonder why guitar amps don't have clip indicators? For one thing they don't use tweeters. For another they're usually clipping. Why? I may be wrong and i'm not an electric engineer but poweramp clipping can and will blow the PSU and/or other power stage components. I know it for the wrong reasons, back in my youth i managed to blow a PSU on a practice amp by feeding it with a very high line signal... lesson learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Clipping will never bother a PSU. Too low an impedance load can if the amp is not protected against it, while sending a high level signal into an amp input can damage pre-amp components that aren't able to handle high current sources. When they fail they can take out the PSU as well, but clipping has nothing to do with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorG Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Well regardless, it's clear I've got a lot more headroom than I was daring to risk. Though I do like my tweeters(no pun intended). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Clipping is clipping, with both cause and effect being the same, no matter where it occurs in the signal chain. The only reason to have a clipping indicator is to warn the user of the potential for tweeter damage. Ever wonder why guitar amps don't have clip indicators? For one thing they don't use tweeters. For another they're usually clipping. I never knew that Bill, thanks for the info. I`m a "we don`t need no steenking tweeters" guy anyway, so the above is very useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: "we don`t need no steenking tweeters" That's no way to talk about Twitter subscribers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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