Ad pulled from Gumtree (Ric and not so much Ric content)

[karlfer]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1491767605' post='3275261']
Who is it then?
[/quote]

Really?
Amongst many other discussions
http://basschat.co.uk/topic/190096-so-a-rockinbetter-isnt-a-rickenbacker-a-rockinbetter-isnt-a-tokai/page__hl__rockinbetter

In all of these discussions NOBODY has EVER produced photographic evidence of a Rockinbetter with the TOKAI name on it anywhere.
Unlike Tokai Rickenbacker GUITAR copies, which spookily have Tokai labelling.

[Big Uli]

[quote name='Studio GC' timestamp='1491758292' post='3275194']
I know, my 50's P Bass (MIM) serves me just fine (purchased used for £400), but why should I let that stop me from seeing if the Ric is the holy grail? The price I paid for the Ric means I can sell it for a profit here in the UK.

I am breaking my own rules though, that I always say £600 is plenty of money to find a good gigging bass. But if the Ric blows me away I can live with the price as I'm only a two bass person (one decent and one back up).

Edit: And...you do know, I am the bassist for Carnaby Army don't you?
[/quote]

I do now
I got a mate playing bass in a band and was gonna ask him to try my stuff out live one time and now he has bought a double bass and started a rock'n'roll band with some of his other mates,
The sod LOL

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1491767605' post='3275261']
Who is it then?
[/quote]

As far as anyone knows, Rockinbetter is the brand name dreamt up by either an importer or a Chinese guitar factory.

This might be same Chinese guitar factory that also makes, under licence, instruments at the cheaper end of the Tokai range (as well as instruments with lots of other brand names on the headstock); but that is it, as far as the Tokai association goes.

Given RIC's litigious nature it's understandable that the company(s) and individuals involved want to remain anonymous, and this all helps with the "mystique" surrounding the brand. However there is little evidence to suggest that the link between Tokai and Rockinbetter is anything other than tenuous at best and most likely non-existent.

It's notable that all the people trying to convince us that Tokai and Rockinbetter are one and the same are those who want to sell us a Rockinbetter.

[Billy Apple]

Are Rockinbetters not made of maple? I thought they were.

[Beer of the Bass]

Did they not share UK distribution with Tokai for a while, or something like that? If shops were ordering them from a distributor with "Tokai" in the name, I can see how the name might become associated with them even if it tells us nothing about the manufacturer.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1491824014' post='3275586']
Did they not share UK distribution with Tokai for a while, or something like that? If shops were ordering them from a distributor with "Tokai" in the name, I can see how the name might become associated with them even if it tells us nothing about the manufacturer.
[/quote]

The UK distributer for Tokai uses the tokai-guitars.co.uk web address for their site although the actual company is called RKM Supplies Ltd. It does seem to be the same people running it since Tokai guitars started appearing in the UK again in the early 2000s. They may or may not have also been importing the Rockinbetter basses alongside their core business of Tokai, but plenty of distributors in the UK handle multiple lines from different manufacturers, and so that doesn't mean anything. In my dealings with the UK distributor I found myself wading through a lot of BS, and was so disillusioned with them, that when I came to buy my Talbos I got them direct from Japan rather than through the official UK channels.

All this dis-information stems from the fact that Tokai guitars are no longer made exclusively in Japan, and while models like the Talbo and the top of the range Love-Rocks are still MiJ, there are a lot of instruments bearing the Tokai name on the headstock that are made elsewhere, and it certainly shows in terms of lesser build and QC, and IMO doesn't do the Tokai name any favours.

The general consensus regarding Rockinbetter and Tokai, is that if Tokai was going to make a 4001/4003 bass it would have Tokai on the TRC. They've made RIC-style guitars in the past all of which had the Tokai logo on them, but I've never seen a Tokai-branded 4001-style bass. With the wonders of the internet, I'm sure if one existed, there would have been a photograph of it doing the rounds by now. The fact that no photographic evidence has come to light is good enough for me to say that Tokai have not, and do not make a 4001 or 4003 style bass.

[Studio GC]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1491832724' post='3275708']
The UK distributer for Tokai uses the tokai-guitars.co.uk web address for their site although the actual company is called RKM Supplies Ltd. It does seem to be the same people running it since Tokai guitars started appearing in the UK again in the early 2000s. They may or may not have also been importing the Rockinbetter basses alongside their core business of Tokai, but plenty of distributors in the UK handle multiple lines from different manufacturers, and so that doesn't mean anything. In my dealings with the UK distributor I found myself wading through a lot of BS, and was so disillusioned with them, that when I came to buy my Talbos I got them direct from Japan rather than through the official UK channels.

All this dis-information stems from the fact that Tokai guitars are no longer made exclusively in Japan, and while models like the Talbo and the top of the range Love-Rocks are still MiJ, there are a lot of instruments bearing the Tokai name on the headstock that are made elsewhere, and it certainly shows in terms of lesser build and QC, and IMO doesn't do the Tokai name any favours.

The general consensus regarding Rockinbetter and Tokai, is that if Tokai was going to make a 4001/4003 bass it would have Tokai on the TRC. They've made RIC-style guitars in the past all of which had the Tokai logo on them, but I've never seen a Tokai-branded 4001-style bass. With the wonders of the internet, I'm sure if one existed, there would have been a photograph of it doing the rounds by now. The fact that no photographic evidence has come to light is good enough for me to say that Tokai have not, and do not make a 4001 or 4003 style bass.
[/quote]

When I purchased my Rockinbetter off of Gumtree it was advertised as a Tokai Rockinbetter. I did enough research to know that it really wasn't a Tokai, but enough people still had good enough things to say about them that I went with the purchase anyway. For £300 it was worth it, as it's a well made bass for that price point. Nice beefy bridge and the thru body neck is bound and feels great. If my new Ric 4003s doesn't blow me away I'll sell that and keep the Rockinbetter.

[Woodinblack]

I think people just latched onto the name Tokai to make it sound more like an established make, when there is no connection.

I assumed it would die off now that people know what the rockinbetter is, but sadly these things get embedded in peoples heads regardless of facts.

I liked my rockinbetter, but ultimately not much use to me as it had too few strings.

[prowla]

I think that the UK importer of Rockinbetters was/is a company called "Tokai", but it's not the Japanese company who make guitars and so can be confusing.

As for those Rockinbetters and other Chickenbackers, I really don't like them, not one bit.

I respect Rickenbacker for protecting their brand; why can't companies show a bit of originality and make their own designs?

That said, I've got a Matsumoku Ric copy and it is a quite nice bass; I got it incomplete in bits for a bit of fun and just need to do the TRC for it to be complete (the fool who had it before stripped of the original brand and replaced it with the "R" word). It sounds pretty damn Ric-like!

(Mind you, I've also got two real Rics, so my bonafides are alright.)

[Skybone]

The through neck Rockinbetter's have 3 piece maple necks, and generally basswood body wings. The net result is they're a bit lighter than a Ric. The body is a bit darker than the neck which is a bit more interesting to look at.

The Tokai connection is only through the old UK distributor, who also imported Rockinbetters. They became known as Tokai Rockinbetters because they were advertised with Tokai's and with 'Tokai UK' as the contact.

AFAIK they were also marketed as Bass Collection California in the UK & Europe, and as Rebelrocker's in Australia & New Zealand.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Skybone

[bazzbass]

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1491738814' post='3275078']

I do find the Ric police minions highly amusing though
[/quote]

"The Ric police are all inside of my head

the Ric police are all inside of my head, oh NO"- to Cheap Trick's Dream Police

if those geniuses only realised how MANY people start off with a cheap knock off, then BUY the original

My first was a Cimar Jazz copy with 3tsb and tort....guess what I have now?

It ain't a Ric that's fer sure hehe

Edited April 18, 2017 by bazztard

[Skybone]

That is the annoying thing about the Ricken Waffen, they spend more time annoying people with Fakers, that they simply alienate their own supported brand. This is also true of "he who shall not be named" and the relentless legal threats, combined with their own dwindling factory output, and increased pricing, creating a demand for a lower priced version of the instruments for those who's budgets can't stretch to the real thing.

Guess I'll have to stick with my Faker until I win the Lottery then.

[Skybone]

Oops, just bought another Faker

[BrunoBass]

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1491855705' post='3275963']
The through neck Rockinbetter's have 3 piece maple necks, and generally basswood body wings. The net result is they're a bit lighter than a Ric.
[/quote]

I've heard that said a few times but my Rockinbetter weighed a bleeding ton, which is why I eventually moved it on. The body seemed significantly thicker than a Ric too.

[Skybone]

The thing I like about the Rockinbetter, is that the body is the same width as the Ric.

If you thought the Rockinbetter was heavy, then a Ric is usually that bit heavier (all maple). My old 4003 weighed a ton, but sounded & played superbly. My Rockinbetter's sound & play great, and thankfully weigh less than my old 4003.

[Left Foot]

[center][b] [/b][b] [/b][b]PM me if you find yourself in OP's situation! [/b][b] [/b][b] [/b][/center]

[Skybone]

Well, it arrived.

The neck's a bit chunkier than the other two, and there's no checker binding, but it's in ace condition. Very pleased.

From the left, it's 2, 3, 1

Edited May 11, 2017 by Skybone

[Skybone]

Strings changed, Schaller straplocks on, chickened knobs added, raised Ric pickup ring installed. Plays great, sounds great. Happy.