in ear monitors...for pubs?!?

[bassjim]

sometimes it hurts....................

current band argument:

band plays funk soul disco covers.
we do not have a sound man nor do we need to start paying one any time soon.
we play 90% pubs and clubs most weekends

Arguments for : (from other band members mostly. the ones that want to use them)

1.we should all use IEM because that will solve the problem with you telling me the guitars too loud.
2.I wouldnt have to drag my 1 x 12 guitar amp to every gig.
3.i cant hear my drums very well and i can never hear the vocals properly
4. if we all use them i dont need to bring my monitor (keyboards) and we wont have the problem with the guitarist being so loud
5. the mix will be perfect out front.
6. when we play that small pub in the back of beyond twice a year where there really isnt anywhere to spread the backline out IEM are the solution.
7. im fed up with along with all the other gear I drag to the gigs I have to bring one extra item (that will be the guitar amp/keys monitor)

arguments against:

1. i have high end light weight gear that|I have personally invested thousands in (never mind all those amps and cabs in the past in my ever on going quest for tonal perfection) which gets me the bestest bass sound ever most gigs,even the bastard rooms are doable, and i have no problem moving it all the way from the car to the venue playing area.
2. i can hear every one including me perfectly
3. no one is telling us it all sounds wrong
4. singers can hear no problem with current monitor set up.
5. drummer will now need to invest not only in the IEM gear but learn how to use it.
6. have you learnt the new tunes yet or are you still banging on about IEM?
7.although undoughtedly there must be someone out there using IEMs I to date have yet to see any bands in pubs using them.
8. if we use a dep, is it now on the basis they have a good set of IEMs?
9. i did about 12 dep gigs last year. not one of them asked me if I had my own set of IEMs
10. our singers (we rotate a pool of em) will all be asked to invest at their own expence or use cheap ones that are provided...by the band?)
11. i could go on................

any way......what say you lot?

IEMs yes or no for a pub band?

Edited March 3, 2016 by bassjim

[colgraff]

I say yes. I have the super cheap Gear 4 Music ones and the whole band use them. Much greater clarity of sound, much quieter so no hearing damage. No monitors to lug around and so fewer cables and clutter on stage.

I'd possibly argue that a pub band's need is greater than a 'proper' band's as pub bands generally have less space hence poorer acoustic management and more noise pollution to contend with.

Edited March 3, 2016 by colgraff

[Paul S]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1457020010' post='2994530']
I say yes. I have the super cheap Gear 4 Music ones and the whole band use them. Much greater clarity of sound, much quieter so no hearing damage. No monitors to lug around and so fewer cables and clutter on stage.

I'd possibly argue that a pub band's need is greater than a 'proper' band's as pub bands generally have less space hence poorer acoustic management and more noise pollution to contend with.
[/quote]

This. For all those reasons. With one band I've recently started to use a T Bone entry level transmitter/receiver with Shure SE215 earbuds and it is a revelation.

[bassjim]

thanks colgraff..................so are you saying you never take any backline to a gig?

[Lw.]

No for me. Most bands that I know get a lot of their tone from their amps & whilst I agree that computers have got a lot better recently, it's still not the same. Plus the whole image thing is just ridiculous, but I'll leave it at the music level for now.

[colgraff]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1457020467' post='2994542']
thanks colgraff..................so are you saying you never take any backline to a gig?
[/quote]

The singer/guitarist and drummer (e-kit) go through the PA. I use my rig because the PA is a bit small to do bass justice but when that is upgraded we will not have any backline.

[6feet7]

Hi Bassjim
Your drummer isn't Kit is it? If it is you need em. He's loud (I used to be in a band with him, so I know

[6feet7]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1457020010' post='2994530']
I say yes. I have the super cheap Gear 4 Music ones and the whole band use them. Much greater clarity of sound, much quieter so no hearing damage. No monitors to lug around and so fewer cables and clutter on stage.

I'd possibly argue that a pub band's need is greater than a 'proper' band's as pub bands generally have less space hence poorer acoustic management and more noise pollution to contend with.
[/quote]

Do you have a link to the ones you use?

[LewisK1975]

IEMS being seriously considered by my band.

[bassjim]

hi 6feet7

no it isnt Kit. our drummer is a cool guy. uses hot rods without complaint. is a very skilled drummer. very modest cause hes always doubting himself which is ridiculos causes hes great,but definatley not a loud git. can be if required though.

[bassjim]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1457021276' post='2994553']
The singer/guitarist and drummer (e-kit) go through the PA. I use my rig because the PA is a bit small to do bass justice but when that is upgraded we will not have any backline.
[/quote]
does this mean....the bass gear you now dont need to take to a gig will be replaced by bigger PA stuff you now need to take to the gig?

sorry if that looks like I'm trying to be argumentative BTW!!!!

[gapiro]

Define a pub and club band. IME you need a sound man if you've got a horn section going on there, and most people aren't great at balancing their sound or not adjusting. A soundman is a revelation to get ....

If you are doing clubs and well paid every week (eg £400-500 +++) then I'd go IEM . It is amazing having no backline. (We used to do it in the 80s cover band, again , E KIT)

[bassjim]

ok............ no electronic kitis going to be used. gigs pay between £250.00- £400.00 between 5.

I think its obvious I'm really against it. I think its ridiculous. every thing we already have is working fine . I think the real issue is one of em could do with being a better musician and the other one could do with not being so lazy and one needs to sort himself out with personal monitor or shut up about it.. its a couple of extra boxes to take to a gig that sound absolutley fine 95% of the time, verses lets all get into mucking about with gizmos. at the moment without a sound man we get a good balance out front but this nonsence threatens to f**k it all up IMO.

who out there can honestly say this was a good move, plays mostly pubs n' clubs, uses their own bands PA and now uses them cause they feel its a better sound on and off stage?

[PaulWarning]

depends on the band obviously but no back line is so not rock and roll, the show includes the look as well as the sound, having said that I'm trying without much success to get our singer to use them, trouble is we don't mic anything up, so not sure how it would work, the singer uses ear plugs and we have to have the monitor loud so he can hear himself

Edited March 3, 2016 by PaulWarning

[colgraff]

@Bassjim: Not argumentative. Our current PA speakers are 8" ones and struggle to do justice to the bass sound. We are going to move to bigger PA speakers, don't know which size yet but NOT a four speaker system as that would be as pointless as you suggest. We are working to minimise the size of our kit in every way.

Link for the G4M IEMs. £120 for kit and 3 receivers.
[url="http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Wireless-In-Ear-Monitor-System-Pack-by-Gear4music-3-Receivers/164T"]http://www.gear4musi...-Receivers/164T[/url]

Edited March 3, 2016 by colgraff

[mcnach]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1457020010' post='2994530']
I say yes. I have the super cheap Gear 4 Music ones and the whole band use them. Much greater clarity of sound, much quieter so no hearing damage. No monitors to lug around and so fewer cables and clutter on stage.

I'd possibly argue that a pub band's need is greater than a 'proper' band's as pub bands generally have less space hence poorer acoustic management and more noise pollution to contend with.
[/quote]

That would be my view too.

I wish we were using IEMs regardless the venue. We'd all get a better personal mix so we'd enjoy it more, and that alone is worth it, for me.

[mcnach]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1457024881' post='2994602']
I think its obvious I'm really against it. I think its ridiculous. every thing we already have is working fine .
[/quote]

it sounds like it isn't working fine, otherwise you wouldn't have a band keen on IEMs right now

The arguments of avoiding to bring their amp are pretty poor, in my opinion. But if being able to hear the rest of the band or themselves properly is an issue and as a result the performance is not great, then that's a good case.

I've played so many gigs where teh onstage sound was poor... it worked out ok, people had a good time, we sounded alright out front... but those gigs are a chore and I really would like to enjoy every single gig we play. There have been times when improvising something was out of the question because the sound was so bad for us. Not often, I admit, but if I can I'd like that to happen zero times. To me it's not just playing well to the audience, it is for me to enjoy playing too. I love music. I'd love to hear it all as clearly as possible. So, when IEMs are no longer a crazy expensive solution... why not?

[kusee pee]

Once we went IEM, there was never any way we'd go back. The benefits of personal mixes and ear protection are totally worth it in my opinion. We gig pubs, parties, weddings. We have a backline of bass and guitar amp but they are put through front-of-house and only provide a little on-stage output. I would never go back. When we have deps, we provide a wedge monitor for them if they wish or they can bring some headphones and have an ear mix. I would suggest going for it as the benefits are so great and the only downsides, for me, are the initial costs.

[mr zed]

I use them - the rest of the band don't. I'm protecting my hearing, they are not. I get CD quality sound at a nice comfortable volume with a great personal mix - they don't. I can hear everything clearly - they complain they can't hear the vocals/guitars whatever - usually they complain that they can't hear themselves so they turn up. I just smile a smug little smile. I have to lug my bass amp & cabs around and set them up so they can hear the bass but that's not an issue. I set the bass volume on stage how they want and set it in my ears how I want. If another band member wants to talk to me about something while we're playing I just point to my ears and they soon get the message. Been using them for a couple of years now - wish i'd done it sooner. Oh and we play pubs/small clubs. I don't think I look a knob whilst wearing them but I suppose that's for others to decide - I don't give a monkeys as i'm happy in my own little bit of audio heaven.

[DiceSociety]

Firstly I admit I've never tried IEM's, but a bug bear of mine from an audience stand point, is poor sound when a whole band goes through a PA for pubs. Personally I think it sounds much better just putting the vocals through the PA, and everything else goes through the back line with the volume dictated by how loud the drummer is. Obviously for larger venues a PA is needed. It appears that I'm in a minority though!
To be honest I'm rarely impressed by the sound of professional bands in a large venue where the sound is: Bass - an indeterminable rumble, the guitars - a trebly mess, and the only thing that sounds good is the drums and occasionally the vocals. I think some engineers try and recreate the sound of a CD where nothing has any room to breathe, which in my humble, or possibly misguided opinion, is the wrong way to go for live music.

I'll get my coat....

[EBS_freak]

[color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
A band where the guitarists tone at volume is sacrificed for a tone that is at a sensible volume makes the band sound better full stop. Newsflash. Nobody is listening to the guitar tones. Nobody is listening to the bass tones... Nobody is paying attention to pretty much anything on that level apart from what the singer sounds like. A capable band where the singer sits in a perfect mix is the best sounding band.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
If you require IEMs to stop the volume wars, do that... that's the way you should go. No worrying if you can hear each other or not - just mix in what you need and nobody will complain. You’ll thank yourself when your ears aren’t completely shot in the future also.[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
Those who follow my posting know that I am an IEM advocate. There is no way that I would ever go back.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
Mr Zed - glad you are still living the dream! [/size][/font][/color]

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='DiceSociety' timestamp='1457027537' post='2994646']
Firstly I admit I've never tried IEM's, but a bug bear of mine from an audience stand point, is poor sound when a whole band goes through a PA for pubs. Personally I think it sounds much better just putting the vocals through the PA, and everything else goes through the back line with the volume dictated by how loud the drummer is. Obviously for larger venues a PA is needed. It appears that I'm in a minority though!
To be honest I'm rarely impressed by the sound of professional bands in a large venue where the sound is: Bass - an indeterminable rumble, the guitars - a trebly mess, and the only thing that sounds good is the drums and occasionally the vocals. I think some engineers try and recreate the sound of a CD where nothing has any room to breathe, which in my humble, or possibly misguided opinion, is the wrong way to go for live music.

I'll get my coat....
[/quote]

I would wager that a lot of pub bands haven't got a PA capable of putting a band through effectively.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1457025079' post='2994603']...get our singer to use them, trouble is we don't mic anything up, so not sure how it would work, the singer uses ear plugs and we have to have the monitor loud so he can hear himself
[/quote]

Not quite OT, but intrigued by this. Can you try out an iem system for the singer, giving him the same mix as his current floor monitor, but with an added ambience mic picking up the rest of the stage..? Any half-decent mic facing rearwards near the front of the stage would do (maybe even clipped to his own mic stand..? He'd get to hear all the band, at any level he needs, plus his own vocals. All you need is a spare mic and a spare channel on the console. No good..? Sounds odd, to me, to wear ear protection and then turn up the monitors; I could be wrong, though.
Just sayin'.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Dad3353

[chris_b]

I've always found that the problems IE's fix are also fixed by using musicians who can play well, play together, get a balance and level and don't act like a bunch of amateurs.

[DiceSociety]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457027865' post='2994650']
I would wager that a lot of pub bands haven't got a PA capable of putting a band through effectively.
[/quote]

Yep, that's a good point. Or if they have, they don't always know how to use it.