EssentialTension Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1450273658' post='2931231'] Surely it's worse in four- or five-pieces bands as you've got to deal with two of the buggers! [/quote] Son of ET plays guitar in an eleven-piece band. He is the only guitarist. No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450274479' post='2931246'] I think this is perhaps at th base of the issue. The fellow is a terrible guitar player (I mean aweful, knows no theory and cannot string a melody to save his life) and he uses scooped and over-saturated sounds to mask his bad playing. I guess its driving me crazy since how terrible he sounds is going somewhat un-noticed at practice because his tone is so aweful that it cannot be heard properly. I have a video of him doing a 'solo' toward the end of our last set and I just want to die of embaressment to be honest. He even tries to do some speed tapping...out of key and time...oh help me. I guess I need to get him to get a tone that everyone can hear so we can be more honest about how terrible he sounds. And either work with him to get better (happy to do that provided he puts in the time and effort on his part) or... [/quote] Can we see the vid of him playing? Please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1450287129' post='2931405'] Sometimes I get a little worried when I number the bands I quit who completely folded a few months later - am I leaving a trail of scrambled egg in my wake? [/quote]Or you might have been right and they were wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I feel Naetharu's pain here. Not only is it hassle jumping from one band to another but I happen to know he also lives in the sticks. If you live in some city like London, Bristol or Manchester there may be a dozen bands looking for a bass, but in a 2 horse town in deepest Essex? Good luck to you Bud. I guess only you can choose. Sometimes I guess I'm lucky in not having time to be in any kind of band anyway due to work commitments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1450292478' post='2931464'] I feel Naetharu's pain here. Not only is it hassle jumping from one band to another but I happen to know he also lives in the sticks. If you live in some city like London, Bristol or Manchester there may be a dozen bands looking for a bass, but in a 2 horse town in deepest Essex? Good luck to you Bud. I guess only you can choose. Sometimes I guess I'm lucky in not having time to be in any kind of band anyway due to work commitments. [/quote] Hehe, aye that is part of the issue I guess - I live on the edge of a wildlife reserve on the end of a little peninsula that means I have to travel over an hour to get to any town of reasonable size. Also, the band is kind of cool. The main song-write, while not a great guitarist by any means is a solid enough rhythm player, and really shines at writing a good catchy riff. The drummer is top notch (if a little bit close to the Animal from the muppets - you can see other drummers whince when he plays there kits ) so the band is quite good really. I think what happened is that these two chaps (rhythm & drums) have been kicking the project around for almost three years struggling to find other people who are interested in playing prog. It's not a very commercial form of music after all. I guess they became a bit desperate and just took on the first guitar player who said he would do it, without first checking his ability to actually deliver... I'm more than happy to stick with the band for the long haul and give the fellow a chance to improve his skills - its just start to look more and more like he's not bothering to do that convinced that he is somehow the next Eddie Van Halen despite not even knowing his minor pentatonic scale. Anyhow, I know there is nothing much that can be done: It was just getting me worked up so I felt like venting on here and the mass of empathy from you lot has me feeling more relaxed again. Cheers folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1450284678' post='2931371'] A bad workman always blames his tools. Sounds like you need to move on. Life's too short to play in sh*t bands. [/quote] True....... I can't be doing something I'm passionate about if it doesn't cut it...from my standpoint-whatever that is. There are way too many things to get to you musically without such a fundemental thing being 'wrong' And if this guy sounds bad...you all sound bad by association. You are only as good as the weakest member. I'd have to be pretty brutal in this regard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Not sure of this 'town' thing either. Most bands round here spread across 4 or 5 towns in the county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1450293895' post='2931494'] Not sure of this 'town' thing either. Most bands round here spread across 4 or 5 towns in the county. [/quote] +1 We're spread across 4 counties. I'd still walk or kick out the problem guitarist if I was in the OP's position. Poor players with bad attitudes never result in a decent band. If the rest of the band are decent they should be happy to see him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1450295304' post='2931518'] +1 We're spread across 4 counties. I'd still walk or kick out the problem guitarist if I was in the OP's position. Poor players with bad attitudes never result in a decent band. If the rest of the band are decent they should be happy to see him go. [/quote] I guess that just goes to show that a lot depends on if you have time to be driving 2 hours each way to get to a rehearsal night or a gig. You clearly do, so good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 We're doing functions so are used to long journeys to gigs but we rarely rehearse all together. Drummer and I get together from time to time to work on groove but hes only 30mins away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Are the songs absolutely dependent on having two guitarists? I'd think about canning the second one and going down to a three piece until you can find a decent player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450236704' post='2930845'] Hi folks, I'm being driven mad by my bands 2nd guitarist and felt like I'd share. He's got a nasty big Marshall solid state head and he sets the thing up so that he's got the contour control maxed out scooping all of the mid range. Add massive gain and we have sonic mush. Then because he can't hear himself properly he ends up cranking his volume more and more to compensate. The guy is driving me crazy with it. I've tried explaining the issue to him but he just retorts that it is 'his tone'.... Anyone else been in this scenario? Did you manage to get it sorted? [/quote] Been there and decided to tell the whole band we sound sh*t, all because one guy wants 'his tone' Along with a long rant at why he chose this tone and that we are no longer playing in his bedroom on a tiny MG30 combo, and don't need to compensate for the lack of bass guitar in a bedroom. The guy is obviously a child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Graham' timestamp='1450301626' post='2931584'] Are the songs absolutely dependent on having two guitarists? I'd think about canning the second one and going down to a three piece until you can find a decent player [/quote] Alas, first its not really my call. I was the last to join the band so the option is really whether I stick it out or not. It's not really on that I join and then demand they boot other members out. And to be honest I have no issue with the guy being in the band and learning if only he would just listen a bit more. I think chatting to everyone on here has confirmed in my mind that I am not being unreasonable and so I shall have it out with him in a polite but frank way next band practice. Perhaps I have been a little too polite - I think a firmer approach is needed and see what happens. Hopefully if I can force him to de-scoopify is tone he'll be able to hear his playing (as will everyone else) and that might be a good motivator when it comes to learning to actually play properly. We shall see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 if you have no say and the others seem intent on keeping him around and are happy with his tone then you are in a no win situation. i may be more cynical and less patient, but i couldn't be in a band where a member his learning his way, especially if he has no apparent grasp of having to adjust his tone to fit with a band. the choice is yours of course, but if it annoys you already then i think you are going to be driven mad by it in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450348801' post='2931837'] Alas, first its not really my call. I was the last to join the band so the option is really whether I stick it out or not. It's not really on that I join and then demand they boot other members out. And to be honest I have no issue with the guy being in the band and learning if only he would just listen a bit more. I think chatting to everyone on here has confirmed in my mind that I am not being unreasonable and so I shall have it out with him in a polite but frank way next band practice. Perhaps I have been a little too polite - I think a firmer approach is needed and see what happens. Hopefully if I can force him to de-scoopify is tone he'll be able to hear his playing (as will everyone else) and that might be a good motivator when it comes to learning to actually play properly. We shall see... [/quote] I get what you're saying, and it can be hard when you're the new guy, but sometimes the fresh perspective of a newcomer can be what's needed. From what you've said it doesn't seem like the problem is their tone, but rather the're not of a good enough standard and they mask that with their scooped tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hmm one reason people are snappy about things is that they are feeling very defensive and threatened. You've said this guy is a learner and well down on the skills the rest of your band have. He may be incredibly tense in a band situation and covering that in bluster, talking about his tone may well be just a misplaced plea to be considered seriously as a musician. Do the other guys want to keep him in whist he develops? If so then you probably need to work together to bring him round. Guitarist and singers rarely really listen to what the rest of the band are doing, ("do you like the new bass line for that song?", "sorry I didn't notice") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would advise approaching him in private instead of criticising in public. This goes for all walks of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I don't get it.... why are betters players playing with the guy... ? Do they not see or hear the problem... and why did you join? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Auditioned a mid scoop guitarist recently for my band - messaged him saying we like your playing but not your tone, could you change it? He replied stating he thought his tone was 'killer'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) The guitarist in the band i play in has recently bought a new high end combo. He's a great player. However I was chatting to him one day and noticed his graphic EQ was shaped literally U - bass and treble boosted to about 75% and mid cut by 50%. I explained what that would do to our sound but he said that's the recommended setting. He did change it for a while but its gradually crept back. The real problem is that part of his sound can get into bass guitar territory frequency wise and especially on unison riffs or lower register notes on chords. Having heard us recorded there's no problem (the bass guitar always cuts through better anyway). If there is a problem its on stage where it affects our ability to hear ourselves....... I guess we have to put up with it unless we go totally PA with full monitoring - scarcely realistic in pubs. I tend to tweak my mids a little to compensate on offending songs. The point here is I suspect guitarists are being encouraged to have this sound - it's not something one or two individuals do. It can be worsened by musicians (guitar or keyboard) who play too much (or six string chords) - forgetting they're not playing alone!! Edited December 17, 2015 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1450380878' post='2932292'] I tend to tweak my kids a little to compensate of offending songs. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450382534' post='2932310'] [/quote] Ouch - Oh dear - f***ing iPhone apple spell strikes again!! It was mids!!! I've corrected all the other corrections as well!! Edited December 17, 2015 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Ha ha ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1450379484' post='2932273'] I don't get it.... why are betters players playing with the guy... ? Do they not see or hear the problem... and why did you join? [/quote] Reasonable questions: (1) They are pretty desperate to get a 2nd guitar player and felt that they might be able to train him up - they were trying for quite a long time to find someone and got to the point where they were willing to give anyone a shot so long as it meant they could get going. (2) I joined because I really like the songs they had written and I enjoy old-school prog rock. It's not easy to find an originals band in the first place, let alone one that plays massive prog-rock songs. I stayed (and continue to do so) be cause I really like the chaps, including number-2 guitar. The main song-writer is a really nice chap and pretty good at what he does. The drummer is ace and playing along with him is great practice for me and has moved my playing forward leaps and bounds. It's tough as people mentioned above: it's not like there are dozens of prog-rock bands in the middle of the Essex countryside looking for bass players. I love the band for the most part, and have a great time. It's just driving me nuts that this fellows tone is getting in the way. I can live with the bad playing for now (I'm fine with the 'lets train him up' view) but the tone is god awful and I cannot hear myself, the singer or the offending guitar most of the time - it just sounds like total mush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Who is the band leader? Even if it's only in a loose sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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