Stylon Pilson Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Threads like this make me sad. Because while I can accept that there are many musicians who, by dying when they did, have left a perfectly-preserved memory, I feel like it's also a bit callous of us to assume that their best work was behind them. colgraff mentions Bowie, which to me is a good example - in my opinion, the quality of Bowie's work dipped quite heavily during the 80s/90s, and it would be all to easy for us to say "that's it, he's past his prime, might as well take him out behind the farmhouse and put him out of his misery" but I think that his last few albums have been some of the best he's ever done. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 The Freddie Mercury one... I pondered this long and hard as I couldn't decide if his overthetopness would carry him through to 'aging queen / national treasure' status without any lessening of his regard in between. In general, I think any performer who doesn't take him/her self too seriously (at least in public) is automatically safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Paul McCartney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 McCartney doesn't count. Even if he died today, everything he's ever done has "trite" and "banal" and "cliche-ridden" stamped all over it in 20-foot letters. Iconic? Never was, never will be IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [media]http://youtu.be/6gwLQAuHJv8[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446811535' post='2902511'] McCartney doesn't count. Even if he died today, everything he's ever done has "trite" and "banal" and "cliche-ridden" stamped all over it in 20-foot letters. Iconic? Never was, never will be IMHO [/quote] With respect, I can't think of a comment on Basschat in recent years that I fundamentally disagree with as much as this one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446811535' post='2902511'] McCartney doesn't count. Even if he died today, everything he's ever done has "trite" and "banal" and "cliche-ridden" stamped all over it in 20-foot letters. Iconic? Never was, never will be IMHO [/quote] [quote name='silverfoxnik' timestamp='1446814250' post='2902550'] With respect, I can't think of a comment on Basschat in recent years that I fundamentally disagree with as much as this one.. [/quote] Well, there are all the other times someone has expressed a similarly bizarre viewpoint about McCartney ... like every time he or The Beatles are mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1446814973' post='2902566'] Well, there are all the other times someone has expressed a similarly bizarre viewpoint about McCartney ... like every time he or The Beatles are mentioned. [/quote] ...and I was only observing how the quality of his work dropped off after he died... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1446816275' post='2902592'] ...and I was only observing how the quality of his work dropped off after he died... [/quote] You shouldn't have winked ... it only confuses people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1446814973' post='2902566'] Well, there are all the other times someone has expressed a similarly bizarre viewpoint about McCartney ... like every time he or The Beatles are mentioned. [/quote] With respect, what's bizzarre about it? Frogs Chorus? Mull of Kintyre? Band on the Run? All the most insipid Beatles output? Please.... A competent bass player, just about Look up Jack Bruce's views on McCartney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 I like quite a lot of Paul McCartney songs. Come to think of it, I don't think that writing middle-off the road music is in and of itself a bad thing. The things we said today, Live and let die, Yesterday and Eleanor Rigby are all top flight songs for me, but d.s.f.d.f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Band on the run's a cracking tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446817438' post='2902606'] Look up Jack Bruce's views on McCartney. [/quote] Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker pretty much slagged off every other band of their generation. Brilliant bass player, but the skills Bruce seemed to lack was not to be so arrogant and keeping his mouth shut. Edited November 6, 2015 by Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Very true! I don't agree with much of what Mr Bruce said, but I have to say I always regarded Mr McCartney as being of very modest gifts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1446752230' post='2902132'] Does dying whilst getting flaky and astronomically over-rated since count? Syd Barrett. [/quote] I feel like Barrett deserves a sort of respect for [i]not[/i] staging a comeback in his later years. I mean, he did his thing for as long as it worked and then lived out the rest of his life quietly pottering around Cambridge not seeking any recognition. There's a certain dignity in that IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446811535' post='2902511'] McCartney doesn't count. Even if he died today, everything he's ever done has "trite" and "banal" and "cliche-ridden" stamped all over it in 20-foot letters. Iconic? Never was, never will be IMHO [/quote] You are at liberty to hold said opinion and to express it, as you have done, but to say "everything he's ever done has "trite" and "banal" and "cliche-ridden" stamped all over it in 20-foot letters". Really? [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446817438' post='2902606'] With respect, what's bizzarre about it? Frogs Chorus? Mull of Kintyre? Band on the Run? All the most insipid Beatles output? Please.... A competent bass player, just about Look up Jack Bruce's views on McCartney. [/quote] Well, one bizarre thing, IMHO, is citing [i]The Frog Chorus[/i], a popular song specially written for a children's film, as an example of the "banality" of "everything he's ever done etc...". The same goes for citing [i]Mull of Kintyre[/i], an extremely popular love song to his home in Scotland. I realise it may be an unpopular view with some but I really don't at all see what's wrong with a musician-songwriter writing popular songs. As for calling [i]Band on the Run[/i] insipid. Again, really? And there is a long list of not "trite, banal, cliche-ridden". But if you don't like it then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446821052' post='2902654'] Very true! I don't agree with much of what Mr Bruce said, but I have to say I always regarded Mr McCartney as being of very modest gifts... [/quote] As for Jack Bruce ... [quote]Ask him who he regards as the best bass players in pop and rock history and he answers at once: "If you're talking electric bass, it's very, very simple: James Jamerson, Paul McCartney, Jaco Pastorius, me." [url="http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/slowhand/2008/013063.html"]http://six.pairlist....008/013063.html[/url] [i]Jim Clash: I know you were inspired by jazz and classical bass, but who are some rock bassists you admire?[/i] Jack Bruce: Well, James Jamerson, if you can call him a rock player. I would call him a rock player, definitely. McCartney did great things. Rain is an example of his simple, lovely bass playing. [url="http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimclash/2015/07/02/jack-bruce-lost-cream-tapes-v-we-looked-down-on-jagger-richards-zeppelin/"]http://www.forbes.co...hards-zeppelin/[/url] [/quote] But, as I said, if you don't like it or him, then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1446821822' post='2902663'] I feel like Barrett deserves a sort of respect for [i]not[/i] staging a comeback in his later years. I mean, he did his thing for as long as it worked and then lived out the rest of his life quietly pottering around Cambridge not seeking any recognition. There's a certain dignity in that IMO. [/quote] Indeed; the poor fellow was ill. One may just as well take a pop at Ian Dury, whilst we at it. There's a few rum folks in here, I find, at times. Anyione dissatisfied with Mozart's later works..? Bruckner, anyone..? Bartok in decline, maybe..? The Monkees; now, there was a disappointment towards the end. I almost stopped buying their stuff. Ken Dodd, even, was unable to repeat his earlier successes. Should have died earlier, maybe..? Mama Cass Elliot..? I hear the tolling from here, and the cries of 'Bring out your dead..!'. Funny ol' world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 I have to take issue with Dad's interpretation. No one is suggesting that people should have died earlier and as he has already made clear that this thread is, in his opinion, pointless. If one deems it pointless, then why not leave it alone so that those who are enjoying it can do so without the criticism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1446827761' post='2902744'] ... If one deems it pointless, then why not leave it alone so that those who are enjoying it can do so without the criticism? [/quote] It's somewhat ironic to start a thread that asks people to criticise and then complain when those people are themselves criticised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1446827761' post='2902744'] I have to take issue with Dad's interpretation. No one is suggesting that people should have died earlier and as he has already made clear that this thread is, in his opinion, pointless. If one deems it pointless, then why not leave it alone so that those who are enjoying it can do so without the criticism? [/quote] My opinion is pointless too, then..? Probably. It still seems to be quite bad taste to roll out this list. Still, as long as that's your enjoyment, who am I to interject any counter thoughts..? Any more mud to be slung, or have we done 'em all, now..? Edited November 6, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'm not in the habit of mudslinging and I have not made any personal criticisms. I also made it explicit that I didn't want people to express satisfaction about anyone's early demise. A quick readthrough shows that no one has done so. I am not sure that it is in bad taste to consider how someone's legacy is affected by an early death. Obituary writers do it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I have often thought about how things may have changed if there was not the early demise. Someone said about Hendrix was getting very experimental. Maybe music could have changed dramatically if he had survived.If anyone could have changed the direction music had taken, I think it could have been him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1446811535' post='2902511'] McCartney doesn't count. Even if he died today, everything he's ever done has "trite" and "banal" and "cliche-ridden" stamped all over it in 20-foot letters. [b]Iconic? Never was, never will be IMHO[/b] [/quote] Bit like saying, "The Sun... Hot? Never was, never will be IMHO". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1446749562' post='2902083'] Meant to be great, but not to my liking, Keith Moon. [/quote]nope, I never rated his drumming much but a great Mr Rock n Roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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