Stylon Pilson Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Last week, we had a band subcommittee meeting in the pub to discuss our drummer. If you imagine the core of the band to be the singer-cum-songwriter-cum-band-leader-cum-rhythm-guitarist and the lead guitarist, then I'm like the mantle - not as long established as their partnership, but in the time I've been with them I've proven my worth. The matter that we wanted to discuss did not relate to musical ability, but rather his attitude. The other two want to give him the boot, I want to try talking to him to see if we can find improvement. I am then informed that the drummer from another local band has expressed an interest in leaving his current projects (two) and joining us, and I have to concede that this guy would be a much better fit. We've played on bills with him before, he's got ability and good personality in spades. I start to change my thinking - if we give our current drummer another chance, but he doesn't improve, then we may find that by that time, this other candidate is no longer on the market. At the end of this meeting we're a few pints the worse for wear, but the situation as I understand it is that we're going to audition this other drummer and take things from there. Apparently I misunderstood, because on Sunday I get a message from our now ex-drummer. I message the band leader saying "uh... what just happened?" We're now in a very sticky situation. This audition has to work out - the band leader has apparently decided that it's a done deal already. Fast forward to the audition itself, last night. Everything's good, the songs are sounding better, there's a positive energy in the room that's been missing for some time. As we're packing away, there seems to be a mutual consensus that everyone's happy with the new arrangement. But the drummer drops his bombshell - he's not planning on leaving his other bands, and indeed he would continue to prioritise them above us. To what extent, I know not. If we've booked a gig and then he receives a gig offer for one of the other bands, would he cancel? From what he was saying, it sounds like the answer would be yes. I know that band leader will not be pleased with this, but he doesn't say anything there and then, because he knows that right now, this guy is all we've got, and he seems to be basically saying that he'll do a gig here and there, but that's it. Which leaves us in a fairly undesirable situation, wouldn't you say? S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Rotten Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Ouch... sounds like the "singer-cum-songwriter-cum-band-leader-cum-rhythm-guitarist" has jumped the gun in sacking the drummer. I suppose he isn't going to want to come back even if you asked him because of the potential politics and bad feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) In reality the ex-drummer was already an ex. He just hadn't been told yet. The reasons for firing the first guy haven't changed. See what availability the other guy has. Maybe you can work the diaries out. If not find another drummer. At the end of the day, life's too short for "bad attitudes" in any sphere of life. Edited October 30, 2015 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The guy you've just sacked then becomes first choice dep if he'll do it, sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='Jonnyboy Rotten' timestamp='1446206102' post='2897680'] Ouch... sounds like the "singer-cum-songwriter-cum-band-leader-cum-rhythm-guitarist" has jumped the gun in sacking the drummer. I suppose he isn't going to want to come back even if you asked him because of the potential politics and bad feeling? [/quote] Indeed, and to be honest I think that the ScScBLcRG would be too proud to ask. Here's an interesting little detail that may become relevant: our drummer's been with us for one year, and our previous drummer was "laterally promoted" to the role of synth & percussion, a role which he holds to this day (though his level of commitment to the band is a fraction of what it once was). It's not beyond the realms of possibility that ScScBLcRG may suggest placing him back behind the kit. [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1446206273' post='2897682'] In reality the ex-drummer was already an ex. He just hadn't been told yet. The reasons for firing the first guy haven't changed. At the end of the day, life's too short for "bad attitudes" in any sphere of life. [/quote] That's a fair point, but handling things this way round means we may have given ourselves unnecessary continuity issues. [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1446206388' post='2897684'] The guy you've just sacked then becomes first choice dep if he'll do it, sorted. [/quote] I didn't really want to go into too much detail about the exact nature of his attitude problems, because it didn't seem essential, but suffice to say, I can't see him considering this, unfortunately. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='Jonnyboy Rotten' timestamp='1446206102' post='2897680'] Ouch... sounds like the "singer-cum-songwriter-cum-band-leader-cum-rhythm-guitarist" has jumped the gun in sacking the drummer. I suppose he isn't going to want to come back even if you asked him because of the potential politics and bad feeling? [/quote] This ^^^ It's always better to talk first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Ouch! That didn't go well at all. I don't know the guy, but your 'leader' does not come off well; just because you lead a band, doesn't make it 'your' band. Going forward, as has been previously said, get a new drummer altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' timestamp='1446206720' post='2897690'] Indeed, and to be honest I think that the ScScBLcRG would be too proud to ask. Here's an interesting little detail that may become relevant: our drummer's been with us for one year, and our previous drummer was "laterally promoted" to the role of synth & percussion, a role which he holds to this day (though his level of commitment to the band is a fraction of what it once was). It's not beyond the realms of possibility that ScScBLcRG may suggest placing him back behind the kit. That's a fair point, but handling things this way round means we may have given ourselves unnecessary continuity issues. I didn't really want to go into too much detail about the exact nature of his attitude problems, because it didn't seem essential, but suffice to say, I can't see him considering this, unfortunately. S.P. [/quote] Are[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]you sure that the problem isn't the attitude of the '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]singer-cum-songwriter-cum-band-leader-cum-rhythm-guitarist' rather then the (now ex) drummer's reaction to it??[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Also, you really can't expect to sack someone then expect them to cover when their replacement isn't available...![/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1446207837' post='2897704'] Ouch! That didn't go well at all. I don't know the guy, but your 'leader' does not come off well; just because you lead a band, doesn't make it 'your' band. [/quote] The band leader didn't deliberately go behind our backs, it was a simple misunderstanding. I suppose I could check with lead guitarist, see what conclusion he'd taken away from the meeting. [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1446208274' post='2897710'] Are[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]you sure that the problem isn't the attitude of the '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]singer-cum-songwriter-cum-band-leader-cum-rhythm-guitarist' rather then the (now ex) drummer's reaction to it??[/font][/color] [/quote] It's a point worth raising, but I think that, while I could always appreciate the validity of the now-ex-drummer's complaints, unfortunately the way that he would react to them was universally unconstructive. It makes it difficult to get anything done when every single small obstruction along the way becomes a crisis. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' timestamp='1446209053' post='2897726'] The band leader didn't deliberately go behind our backs, it was a simple misunderstanding. I suppose I could check with lead guitarist, see what conclusion he'd taken away from the meeting. [/quote]Nah, that boat has sailed, move on, no point in looking for more friction. Look for a drummer that has what you want in terms of ability, personality and commitment. Maybe it is your keyboard player, it rather depends on how he likes his current role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' timestamp='1446209053' post='2897726'] It's a point worth raising, but I think that, while I could always appreciate the validity of the now-ex-drummer's complaints, unfortunately the way that he would react to them was universally unconstructive. It makes it difficult to get anything done when every single small obstruction along the way becomes a crisis. [/quote] Fair enough [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1446209877' post='2897740'] Nah, that boat has sailed, move on, no point in looking for more friction. Look for a drummer that has what you want in terms of ability, personality and commitment. Maybe it is your keyboard player, it rather depends on how he likes his current role. [/quote] Either that or look for a band looking for a new bass player...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Given that the situation you are in has partly resulted from misunderstandings or different interpretations of conversations, I'd think it would be useful to get a clear statement from your new drummer of exactly what he can and can't commit to and work from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Changing drummers is always a pain and you generally have two ways of kicking one out. 1st is to sack them and then audition and 2nd is to audition and then sack them. The 1st way feels really dishonest and the 2nd way is a huge risk. I would personally say you have done route 1 but not yet found the ideal replacement so you are best off continuing to look for a suitable new guy. Unless the guy you auditioned already is prepared to commit wholly then you will always be frustrated when your band is constantly at his mercy. Your band leader sounds like a bit of a plum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisanthony1211 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Drummers are an interesting breed, we've got through copious amounts over the years, maybe it's because they know that they're in short supply, but I've not met many without an attitude issue! Having said that, our current drummer seems to be an exception, but time will tell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 [quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1446213118' post='2897786'] Musicians are an interesting breed, [/quote]Fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 If you have really good paying gigs bet he would play a lot more shows than you think. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think you run across lazy, complacent and day dreaming band members all the time, but I haven't played with a bad drummer, or one with a "bad attitude" for years. Guitarists on the other hand. . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1446375550' post='2898815'] I think you run across lazy, complacent and day dreaming band members all the time, but I haven't played with a bad drummer, or one with a "bad attitude" for years. Guitarists on the other hand. . . . . [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1446211784' post='2897772'] Changing drummers is always a pain and you generally have two ways of kicking one out. 1st is to sack them and then audition and 2nd is to audition and then sack them. The 1st way feels really dishonest and the 2nd way is a huge risk. [/quote] Vice versa, surely? Audition and sack is the dishonest one, sack and audition is the risky one. PS. There's some bloke dresses up as a zombie that the OP might like to get drumming for him. Edited November 7, 2015 by tauzero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1446207837' post='2897704'] Ouch! That didn't go well at all. I don't know the guy, but your 'leader' does not come off well; just because you lead a band, doesn't make it 'your' band. [/quote]You tell Richie Blackmore that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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