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Speaker size - samples and poll

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[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1426750307' post='2721448']
I'm part basing mine upon my previous listening to the 15 and 12 TKS cabs, that and the second one sounds most different. ;)
[/quote]

This is clearly an unfair advantage and you should be disqualified :)

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[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1426763886' post='2721631']
This is clearly an unfair advantage and you should be disqualified :)
[/quote]

I've heard loads of 'em, and I'll still be wrong...

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1426763880' post='2721630']
You want to hear the production cabs for real. BassGear isn't that far. :)
[/quote]
A trip is planned as they sell the ToneHammer 500 as well so I get the perfect chance to try them both together, I won't lie I'm positively excited!

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[quote name='Thump' timestamp='1426776192' post='2721817']
A: 10"
B: 15"
C: 12"

If its not i'll eat a tramps socks
[/quote]
Video proof of course! ;)

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A = 15
B = 10
C = 12

Based on how similar (or not) they sounded to other cabs I've owned in the past. Though as I haven't heard my old cabs through this pair of headphones I imagine it's all made up in my head.

I'm planning to be driving back from Bassgear with a heavier car at some point this year so interested in the outcome too...

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[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1426759768' post='2721563']
Yes but even then the mic and position can really affect how you hear all of them
[/quote]+1. If one wanted to one could measure the same cab with the mic in three positions, get three different results, then pose the same poll question and see how many saw through the ruse. :)

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I've got with 10, 15, 12 because thats how my preconceptions told me to vote, but what do I know, I'm a luddite when it comes to loudspeakers :-)

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[quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1426781586' post='2721893'] I'm a luddite when it comes to loudspeakers :-)
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6f6BNp1q1Y

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1426763940' post='2721634']


I've heard loads of 'em, and I'll still be wrong...
[/quote]

I'm probably way out as I chose what everybody would think was most unlikely. Only 2 others agree with me :)

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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1426762403' post='2721605']
So maybe, instead of criticising, you could design a test of your own that would generate valid results? Could such a test even exist or are there too many variables? :huh:
[/quote]

What, now I can't point out potential flaws in this either??

If someone wants to post something like this on the internet then people with a valid point to make can make that point as a part of the discussion, that is the point of internet forums, its a two way interactive thing.

Was I direspectful in any way at all here?
I fail to see how, I just wanted to make something clear about what everyone is hearing.

Did you think of this issue at all?
No, I don't suppose you did, but you haven't mentioned it, so I'll assume you didn't..

Did the person doing the A/B testing?
Possibly but we don't know and it wasn't mentioned, so I thought I would bring it up before people on here quote this clearly unscientific bit of fun as absolute gospel truth for the next five years. I'm sure this was targetted at the people present and a recording was made as a second thought.

Furthermore if they close mic'ed it the people in the room would have an unfair clue as to what cab they were looking at, so I'm going to rule that possiblity out completely, unless told otherwise. So we are defintely listening to the interaction of driver and cab, you want to make the cone sound deeper, make a more efficient box for the frequency respondse you want to hear, which is entirely possible by the way, and not dependant entirely on speaker diameter at all, just ask Bill F!

Is it a valid point?
Well yes as a matter of fact it absolutely is in my opinion....

Does this mean I have to build a different, better, competing form of a similar test to back up my criticism of it?
Err no, it doesn't as it goes, carry on with the fun and larks all you like, I joined in too, because thats all it is.


I think the only way to make a test like this as similar as possible is to mic from the same points relative to each speaker and play each mic back seperately as well. And to fit each driver into an infinite baffle so as to try and remove the cab from the test as much as possible. But I'm not a speaker design guru by any stretch of the imagination, so that may not be the best way to go either. Plus I'm not sure how you would do that with an audience present and not give the game away visually....

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1426780272' post='2721882']
+1. If one wanted to one could measure the same cab with the mic in three positions, get three different results, then pose the same poll question and see how many saw through the ruse. :)
[/quote]

If I weren't utterly snowed at the moment I absolutely would do this, I may when I next get a chance to track some bass, just for a giggle, do exactly that, it would be a very reasonable point to prove I think.....

Edited by 51m0n

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Of course if you had an anechoic chamber and a superb control room with flat (or at least very very good) monitoring you could blind test this thinking about it.

You can set each driver on an infinite baffle up in the chamber a few feet apart

Mic each one seperately

Record the bass part direct and reamp it to the various cabs via the same amp always.

Bring up the corresponding mic to the currently selected cab in the control room and listen to the playback.

No visual clues, just the captured sound replayed. And everyone gets the same part to hear. Record the playback as well and you can post it on the internets as a double blind if you conduct the testing that way (ie the selector of the cab/mic in the array has no idea of which set up they are selecting either - blah blah blah).

Expensive to run the test though :D

Edited by 51m0n

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I used to play through two 15in cabs, which was plenty bright enough for me. The reason I chose 1x15s over 2x10s? No stupid tweeters!

I voted with the majority on this, so I guess I am subject to the same preconceptions as most other bass players. It is already clear that arguments have been marshalled, ready for the 'I told you so' when the uncomfortable truth is revealed...

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[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1426844941' post='2722514']Was I direspectful in any way at all here?
[/quote]

I didn't say that you were disrespectful, but you did come across as a bit negative IMO. Fair enough. Maybe my use of the word "criticise" was a bit inappropriate, but criticism can be positive too of course! :)

I think, at the end of the day, no matter how exhaustive and objective tests like this are, there will always be some bass players who say "never mind the science, I know what my ears tell me". So I don't think there will ever be any final answers to this question.

Which doesn't mean that we can't try, of course! ;)

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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1426848451' post='2722591']
I think, at the end of the day, no matter how exhaustive and objective tests like this are, there will always be some bass players who say "never mind the science, I know what my ears tell me". So I don't think there will ever be any final answers to this question.
[/quote]

But surely what your ears tell you is the only important thing? It doesn't matter what size the drivers are so long as you like the sound and it's loud enough for your needs.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1426859392' post='2722815']
But surely what your ears tell you is the only important thing? It doesn't matter what size the drivers are so long as you like the sound and it's loud enough for your needs.
[/quote]

..which is the purpose of this thread, really. It's challenging the preconceptions that many of us have.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1426859392' post='2722815']
But surely what your ears tell you is the only important thing? It doesn't matter what size the drivers are so long as you like the sound and it's loud enough for your needs.
[/quote]

For some, yes. Others are interested in the technology from a more 'academic' point of view perhaps... The resulting sound is the bottom line of course, but how that sound is made/shaped is also pretty interesting and worthy of study for its own sake.

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1426859466' post='2722817']
..which is the purpose of this thread, really. It's challenging the preconceptions that many of us have.
[/quote]

Exactly. There are no winners and losers in a poll/thread such as this - we are all winners really as our collective (and individual) knowledge will have been added to B)

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1426859392' post='2722815']
But surely what your ears tell you is the only important thing? It doesn't matter what size the drivers are so long as you like the sound and it's loud enough for your needs [b]and it looks sexy[/b].
[/quote]

Fixed <_<

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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1426859569' post='2722820']
For some, yes. Others are interested in the technology from a more 'academic' point of view perhaps... The resulting sound is the bottom line of course, but how that sound is made/shaped is also pretty interesting and worthy of study for its own sake.
[/quote]

Interesting but irrelavent unless you NEED to be convinced by a science because your ears can't make up their mind.
Would make sense of a 'buy with your eyes's comment...:lol: :lol: ;)

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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1426859668' post='2722822']
Exactly. There are no winners and losers in a poll/thread such as this - we are all winners really as our collective (and individual) knowledge will have been added to B)
[/quote]

Well, I'm pretty sure the purpose of a thread like this is to trip a few minds/stereoypes but then again, they are stereotypes for a reason. :lol:

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Oh dear. I've gone with the majority without knowing it. I said 10, 15, 12. I think you can hear more of the tone in A and C than you can in B - and A sounds brightest of 'em all. Although neither A or C have that deeeeeeep feel to them. Either our reasoning is sound as a pound and correct - or just goes to show that it's not as simple as that.

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