lojo Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1425683536' post='2709827'] Fair enough, The majority of the youngsters (musicians) I know have no interest in The Beatles. [/quote] This is true IME, maybe not fair to say no interest, but perhaps that they don't elevate them out of the large pool of influences as much as a decade or 2 ago. [quote name='blue' timestamp='1425757230' post='2710487'] I wonder if I'm the only one that wonders how the Chilli Peppers could be mentioned in the same sentence with The Beatles or The Stones. [/quote] Im no big Peppers fan, but that is a silly thing to say, the Chilli Peppers have been a hugely successful and influential band for many years [quote name='blue' timestamp='1425758053' post='2710502'] I have nothing against The Chilli Peppers, however I'm having a tough time making any kind of musical connection between The Beatles or Stones with The Chilli Peppers. But that's just me. [/quote] The connection I was making was that , during the 80s when I was a teen, many youth cultures paid respect to the Beatles and Stones, and they where idolised as cream of the crop. Ive over the last 10 years witnessed a large group go through their teens and their focus was on what the Chilli Peppers did in the late 80s and early 90s, just as we looked back on the Beatles. The Peppers where and still are their Beatles Edited March 8, 2015 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1425806473' post='2710768'] The connection I was making was that , during the 80s when I was a teen, many youth cultures paid respect to the Beatles and Stones, and they where idolised as cream of the crop. Ive over the last 10 years witnessed a large group go through their teens and their focus was on what the Chilli Peppers did in the late 80s and early 90s, just as we looked back on the Beatles. The Peppers where and still are their Beatles [/quote] Everyone has 'their' Beatles. It could be Zeppelin, Nirvana, Oasis..whoever. The Beatles were the flashpoint for a global cultural ground-shift, though. There'll never be anything else like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1425808235' post='2710812'] The Beatles were the flashpoint for a global cultural ground-shift, though. There'll never be anything else like it. [/quote] I agree - but as I have argued many times before with people, I think it was an idea whos time was waiting to happen, more than the age being due to the beetles, the beetles were a product of their age. Not saying they weren't good, or talented or special at the time (with the caveat that I am not that bothered about them either way), just that I believe that if they never happened, someone else would have happened to do the same thing at the same place. And yes, the beetlemania, screaming girls at the airport thing, that was a pattern that was repeated all the way through history with different boy bands and groups. A beetles song was one of the first that made me want to pick up a guitar, and I my real original name popularity was due to the beetles, but although I have alway known them, they weren't in the groups that made me pick up a guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1425813979' post='2710887'] I agree - but as I have argued many times before with people, I think it was an idea whos time was waiting to happen... I believe that if they never happened, someone else would have happened to do the same thing at the same place. [/quote] I disagree. They wrote their own brilliant tunes. They were great musicians, They could sing incredibly well, with loads of energy. They had a fantastic ear for arrangement and harmony. They looked cool. The girls loved them. They were masters of stagecraft. They were ambitious. They knew about the power of brand. They knew what the media wanted. They were nice lads. They were picked up by a powerful record company and were schooled by one of the greats. If the Beatles hadn't happened, someone else would have come along and ticked a lot of those boxes, but not all of them at that critical time. The Beatles were a freakish perfect storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 PS - it might sound like it, but I'm not a fanboi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I am not doubting their appeal, but I would say a not insignificant part of that list was created by George Martin, and in the time since, there have been other producers that have moulded groups in the same way. A large number of those that had the same screaming groups of girls at the airports and packed stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1425815133' post='2710905'] I am not doubting their appeal, but I would say a not insignificant part of that list was created by George Martin, and in the time since, there have been other producers that have moulded groups in the same way. A large number of those that had the same screaming groups of girls at the airports and packed stadiums. [/quote] Nah. Most of that list was in place in embryonic form or more before George Martin got involved. I think you need to bear in mind the climate that existed when The Beatles broke through. It wasn't a movement that was bubbling under waiting to happen. It came out of the blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The Beatles where truly and utterly amazing on every level, but I think some go to far in elevating them to being the creators of all things modern about music. Someone once said ... [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]There's nothing you can do that can't be done[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nothing you can sing that can't be sung[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]It's easy[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nothing you can make that can't be made[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]No one you can save that can't be saved[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]It's easy[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nothing you can know that isn't known[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nothing you can see that isn't shown[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be[/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]It's easy[/center][/size][/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If I remember my Beatles history correctly, Macca played guitar only taking up bass when Sri Sutcliffe left. He could already play piano, so would have had an awareness of what the left hand does, which when transferring instruments to bass resulted in his wonderfully melodic bass lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1425814449' post='2710896'] The Beatles were a freakish perfect storm. [/quote] Great comment. I've always thought of Macca as a brilliant musician who just happened to play bass, rather than a brilliant bass player. A subtle difference, in my addled brain anyway. Similar to Jack Bruce. A master musician who is most well known for playing bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1425806473' post='2710768'] This is true IME, maybe not fair to say no interest, but perhaps that they don't elevate them out of the large pool of influences as much as a decade or 2 ago. Im no big Peppers fan, but that is a silly thing to say, the Chilli Peppers have been a hugely successful and influential band for many years [i]Hugely successful, yes I agree. Hugely successful compared to The Beatles or Stones, IMO not even remotely close.[/i] [i]Blue[/i] The connection I was making was that , during the 80s when I was a teen, many youth cultures paid respect to the Beatles and Stones, and they where idolised as cream of the crop. Ive over the last 10 years witnessed a large group go through their teens and their focus was on what the Chilli Peppers did in the late 80s and early 90s, just as we looked back on the Beatles. The Peppers where and still are their Beatles [/quote] [i]I guess I'm too old to get it. [/i] [i]What have The Peppers done that compares to The Beatles? Example Lennon & McCartney will go down in history as 2 of the most prolific song writers and innovators in the history of Pop Music. Where do the Peppers fit into the magnitude of that level of impact?[/i] [i]I think the issue here is, your never going to convince any hardcore Beatles fan there is any connection between the 2 bands other than they both breath air.And even with that, probably not the same air.[/i] [i]Blue[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1425841535' post='2711361'] If I remember my Beatles history correctly, Macca played guitar only taking up bass when Sri Sutcliffe left. He could already play piano, so would have had an awareness of what the left hand does, which when transferring instruments to bass resulted in his wonderfully melodic bass lines. [/quote] I believe that to be true. I also understand that Paul's Father was also a band leader. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1425816802' post='2710933'] Nah. Most of that list was in place in embryonic form or more before George Martin got involved. I think you need to bear in mind the climate that existed when The Beatles broke through. It wasn't a movement that was bubbling under waiting to happen. It came out of the blue [/quote] Agreed, it was like all the stars lined up correctly for them. Their huge overnight success in the USA was inevitable. Look at what was happening, JFK had been assassinated in November of 1963. As a nation we were in many ways depressed and looking for stuff to lift our spirits anyway we could. We were listening to stuff like [i]Dominique by The Singing Nun[/i], not a lot of fun. Then out of the blue these four guys from Liverpool show up and provided us with fun and great music. I think I might have to go back to my; [i]"If you were not a Beatles fan and if you were not there when and while it was happening, you will never get it."[/i] Blue Edited March 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1425815133' post='2710905'] I am not doubting their appeal, but I would say a not insignificant part of that list was created by George Martin, and in the time since, there have been other producers that have moulded groups in the same way. A large number of those that had the same screaming groups of girls at the airports and packed stadiums. [/quote] If George was responsible for all that production, making those vocals bigger than life and placing all the instruments in their proper space within the musical spectrum then yes Martin played a huge role in the sound that drove their success. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1425814449' post='2710896'] I disagree. They wrote their own brilliant tunes. They were great musicians, They could sing incredibly well, with loads of energy. They had a fantastic ear for arrangement and harmony. They looked cool. The girls loved them. They were masters of stagecraft. They were ambitious. They knew about the power of brand. They knew what the media wanted. They were nice lads. They were picked up by a powerful record company and were schooled by one of the greats. If the Beatles hadn't happened, someone else would have come along and ticked a lot of those boxes, but not all of them at that critical time. The Beatles were a freakish perfect storm. [/quote] Awesome analogy! Have there been a group of guys that were more likable since? For me, no, absolutely not. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1425808235' post='2710812'] Everyone has 'their' Beatles. It could be Zeppelin, Nirvana, Oasis..whoever. The Beatles were the flashpoint for a global cultural ground-shift, though. There'll never be anything else like it. [/quote] I disagree with your first comment, everyone does not have [i]"their Beatles"[/i]. They have something, but they don't have a [i]"Beatles"[/i]. I don't think there is such a thing as a [i]"their Beatles"[/i] IMO. Your second comment, I totally agree with. Blue Edited March 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1425170708' post='2704770'] ... It won't be easy as I would think your to young to get what The Beatles were about. [/quote] What are your age limits, high and low, on 'getting what the Beatles were about'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1425851650' post='2711533'] What are your age limits, high and low, on 'getting what the Beatles were about'? [/quote] It depends, I'm sure there are young Beatles historians that know more about the Beatles than I do. However, that bank of knowledge does not mean they "[i]get it"[/i]. I'm sticking with my "[i]you had to be there"[/i] position. I have a younger brother, he's 55 and his knowledge of the Beatles is limited. For example, I asked him, what was the Beatles first major studio feature film release, [i]"Help"[/i] or [i]"Hard Days Night"[/i], his answer after a long time to think about it,[i] "Help"[/i]. I am not sure it's all about age. There are people my age that were not Beatles fans and never "[i]got it[/i]" due to lack of interest. In support of my position I would say those of us that were 9 & 10 years old in 1964 were the perfect age, at least positioned to [i]"get it".[/i] One thing I find interesting about this topic and I wasn't really aware of it until now. The impact of The Beatles seems like it was different for us Yanks than it was for the British. Anyone want to comment on that? Again my apologies to the OP for how the direction of his thread was detoured. I'll take full blame. It did lead to some very interesting ,spirited and diverse exchange. Blue Edited March 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I think this is a great discussion , and Blue , although I wish you could see what we mean by "everyone having thier Beatles". Its not disrespecting the Beatles, the phrase actually honours them (we could say everyone has thier "Elvis") I also like your passion for the fab 4 it reminds me when I started work there was a guy there who could not except that people where not clued up on John Wayne, and that every actor since is merely playing at it. No mention of the Beach Boys yet ? Edited March 9, 2015 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've just spent a considerable amount of money on tickets to see Paul McCartney at the O2. It's been an ambition of mine for years. It's such a shame that, not being around in the early 60s, I won't understand any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1425883014' post='2711701'] I think this is a great discussion , and Blue , although I wish you could see what we mean by "everyone having thier Beatles". Its not disrespecting the Beatles, the phrase actually honours them (we could say everyone has thier "Elvis")[/quote] Good point. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1425883014' post='2711701'] No mention of the Beach Boys yet ?[/quote] Different type of band. For me I like The Beach Boys, however it was a well known fact that they were not musicians in the same sense as The Beatles. They had session musicians, Glen Campbell played guitar and Carol Kay played bass on many of their recordings. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Beach Boys (well Brian at least) inspired by Rubber Soul to go on and make Pet Sounds which then inspires The Beatles to go and do Sgt Pepper. It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1425996104' post='2713192'] Beach Boys (well Brian at least) inspired by Rubber Soul to go on and make Pet Sounds which then inspires The Beatles to go and do Sgt Pepper. It's all good. [/quote] That's my understanding as well. I love both bodies of work, actually all 3. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1425495628' post='2707951'] You must not know the depth of the hard core Beatles fan. Liverpool, I would be in heaven just thinking about the history and breathing the air. Blue [/quote]I feel the same for Haight-Ashbury . I reckon i would be disappointed though. Not sure i would feel the 60`s vibe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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