3 years, 4 bands, 10 gigs. What now?

[neepheid]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1425095379' post='2703916']
I think the OP wants to gig and possibly be paid.If there are gigs for original bands in his region fine. Here in Milwaukee it wouldn't be the best route for those that want to gig. There is no local market for originals bands in Milwaukee.

Blue
[/quote]

Man, it's all about the bottom line with you, isn't it?

Also I find it really sad to hear stuff like "There is no local market for originals bands in Milwaukee." - you mean the originals bands get next to naff all money, or that there are no originals bands playing anywhere in Milwaukee? Originals bands getting f all isn't anything new. But a dearth of local originals bands even playing? I'd find that worrying and rather depressing. Where's the inventiveness? Where's the creativity? Aberdeen (Scotland) can be a weird place, but it has a decent number of venues putting on a decent amount of originals bands every weekend, and even through the week. You get paid a token amount, but at least you're gigging and getting your tunes in peoples' ear holes.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1425072278' post='2703757']


Not [i]that[/i] lucky.

Remember that band you were in one time with a lady singer who had - er- stubble that you used to wonder about and you got the hump in rehearsal when she asked you to simplify your lines a bit and there was a big shouting match between the two of you and halfway through you realised that you had a half-lob and it all ended up in a hotel room and when she whipped 'em off you realised 'she' was a 'he' but it didn't matter anyway by that stage.

Well, that was xilldx. I've never been in a band with you.
[/quote]
I thought those arms in the no tattoos thread looked familiar, just threw me a bit without the black satin cocktail dress in shot!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1425076992' post='2703819']
Thank you. That's the sort of thoughtful, considered advice I was asking for.

For me, this has been a difficult period. I'm the band organiser - I'm getting emails from the rest of the band asking what's happening with our AWOL singer, understandably. I'm trying to balance being sympathetic towards her against the desires of everybody else to push on and find a replacement. I'm also asking myself some questions about whether I can be bothered to do this any more. Another 30 minutes-worth of emails from drummer, guitarist and keys player tonight to deal with. Ok - maybe I'm being a bit too intense about all this, but I do try to respect bandmates' concerns and do what I can to keep a happy ship. Maybe I'm naïve. Maybe it's time for me to change direction, simply concentrate on playing bass and leave band management to somebody else. I genuinely asked Basschat members for some help, and I thank those who have been kind enough to offer advice. Right here, right now, that's what I need. There's a time and a place for everything and, right now, for all the above reasons, I'm not feeling especially jolly or devil-may-care. Just saying.

Steve
[/quote]

In the last few years I've tried to become less friendly with band members in bands that are at least out there to earn something, the jam nights and little trio thing are more for fun with a few quid now and again, trying to keep a happy ship etc I now stay out of if I can,I get messages saying "the singer is too busy with her family to learn new songs" cool lets get another one then rather than organising her life like we have in the past. Even though it's for fun keeping it business like to some extent seams to work better, turn up rehearse or play the gig, have a beer and a chat, go home, text dates and repeat.

[TimR]

Definitely.

I was in a band that spent ages having endless meetings and great long rambling emails that never got anything done.

Never again.

[Number6]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1425114760' post='2704035']
Definitely.

I was in a band that spent ages having endless meetings and great long rambling emails that never got anything done.

Never again.
[/quote]

Been in one of those.....never again +1

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1425114760' post='2704035']
Definitely.

I was in a band that spent ages having endless meetings and great long rambling emails that never got anything done.

Never again.
[/quote]

But at the start of it all, these set the parameters that you work to.
Unless you pay for people's time, you have to accept they can only give it freely
and that they do have other lives.. For example, Keys has a really 'full' homelife
and if we hassled him, he'd have to leave. His skills make this a bad band move,
in our opinion, so we are lenient if he hasn't prgrammed all his songs etc etc ..
but he will do what he says he will do, that apart. He is a very reliable member
of the band but is slower to learn stuff. We understand and accpet this as he
is in credit everywhere else.
My new band has at least 3 members where they have two other musical priorities
that I can't match. If I want them... and I do.. then I have to accept they will
impact at some point. So I've swapped real quality for availability but I know
I couldn't get them any other way.
I'll let you know if it is worth it.
I think this unit will work 6 dates a year... so I'll get my jollies elsewhere as well.

[solo4652]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1425113729' post='2704015']


In the last few years I've tried to become less friendly with band members in bands that are at least out there to earn something, the jam nights and little trio thing are more for fun with a few quid now and again, trying to keep a happy ship etc I now stay out of if I can,I get messages saying "the singer is too busy with her family to learn new songs" cool lets get another one then rather than organising her life like we have in the past. Even though it's for fun keeping it business like to some extent seams to work better, turn up rehearse or play the gig, have a beer and a chat, go home, text dates and repeat.
[/quote]

Aha! Think I've worked out how to use the Quote button.

AWOL singer has just emailed guitarist with a vague "...I'm getting there.....was going to email...probably sort something out with the band sometime in the next 2 or 3 weeks..."

That's no good to me but, there again, I'm hopeless at dealing with ambiguity. I've said to the band that we should crack on with finding a new singer and tell AWOL singer that. If it turns out that's not OK with the band, I'm out of there.

Steve

[JTUK]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1425122202' post='2704134']
Aha! Think I've worked out how to use the Quote button.

AWOL singer has just emailed guitarist with a vague "...I'm getting there.....was going to email...probably sort something out with the band sometime in the next 2 or 3 weeks..."

That's no good to me but, there again, I'm hopeless at dealing with ambiguity. I've said to the band that we should crack on with finding a new singer and tell AWOL singer that. If it turns out that's not OK with the band, I'm out of there.

Steve
[/quote]

I don't feel any sympathy here about the singers predicament.???...but I don't know what the AWOL singer is going thru...
I'd have a quick chat with them and try and be understanding and if it is only 3 weeks, then you'll waste that time getting someone
in, let alone up to speed.
I guess it depends how much you believe what she says, and how much you want to support them, but if a good band member
said to me, they HAD to take time out for personal reasons, I'd be saying, ok, done, anyway we can help?
And I would also assume this has been playing on their mind as well... and it is one more issue that is making their life
currently complicated..??

[discreet]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1425110334' post='2703962']
...I find it really sad to hear stuff like "There is no local market for originals bands in Milwaukee." - you mean the originals bands get next to naff all money, or that there are no originals bands playing anywhere in Milwaukee? Originals bands getting f all isn't anything new. But a dearth of local originals bands even playing? I'd find that worrying and rather depressing. Where's the inventiveness? Where's the creativity?
[/quote]

Music (like every other bloody commodified product) is very much prone to supply and demand - so no doubt there are lots of originals bands playing creative and inventive music in Milwaukee - but what blue is saying is that there is no market for it there, which is the [i]really [/i]sad and depressing thing about it. Mediocrity abounds.

Edited February 28, 2015 by discreet

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1425119260' post='2704094']


But at the start of it all, these set the parameters that you work to.
...
I think this unit will work 6 dates a year... so I'll get my jollies elsewhere as well.
[/quote]

Yes. But what I'm really saying is I want a strong leader with a vision that everyone else has bought into. Even if that's just to practice weekly and only play at relatives' birthday parties.

I don't want endless meetings and discussions about 'the way forward'.

Tell me where we're going, how we're getting there and what tunes we're playing along the way.

If I don't agree or you don't actually start the journey, then I'll want to move on.

[neepheid]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1425123073' post='2704147']
Music (like every other bloody commodified product) is very much prone to supply and demand - so no doubt there are lots of originals bands playing creative and inventive music in Milwaukee - but what blue is saying is that there is no market for it there, which is the [i]really [/i]sad and depressing thing about it. Mediocrity abounds.
[/quote]

That's what I was trying to figure out - no market for it, does that mean that originals bands still play but get naff all, or do they just not bother airing their stuff in public at all because no-one wants to hear it and no-one cares?

[discreet]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1425133677' post='2704323']
That's what I was trying to figure out - no market for it, does that mean that originals bands still play but get naff all, or do they just not bother airing their stuff in public at all because no-one wants to hear it and no-one cares?
[/quote]

Chicken and egg, really. Six of one... and other stupid sayings and homilies.

[PaulWarning]

I always know if the Excuse is "Oh I haven't had time" what they mean is I'd rather be doing something else, if you really want to do something you make the time

[blue]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1425110334' post='2703962']
Man, it's all about the bottom line with you, isn't it?

Also I find it really sad to hear stuff like "There is no local market for originals bands in Milwaukee." - you mean the originals bands get next to naff all money, or that there are no originals bands playing anywhere in Milwaukee? Originals bands getting f all isn't anything new. But a dearth of local originals bands even playing? I'd find that worrying and rather depressing. Where's the inventiveness? Where's the creativity? Aberdeen (Scotland) can be a weird place, but it has a decent number of venues putting on a decent amount of originals bands every weekend, and even through the week. You get paid a token amount, but at least you're gigging and getting your tunes in peoples' ear holes.
[/quote]

I think there are originals bands in Milwaukee and there is creativity and inventiveness and some of these bands are working and on tour.

You might have missed the little nuance in my post, [i]"no local market "[/i]. Maybe I should have said the local market for Originals bands is very small.

There are 4 originals clubs in Milwaukee, where the bands pay for the room and sound and charge at the door of these back rooms. The original bands are lucky to get friends and family members to attend. Usually the owners will not let you play if the band has played any of the other originals clubs within the last 6 months.

I should also mention that some Milwaukee Originals bands get to play high profile charity events with the big stages with pro sound. But again these are no pay gigs.

Here's Jail a Milwaukee based Originals band, however they tour nationally. Are they what you would call creative and inventive? [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMN1-o0bsMs"]https://www.youtube....h?v=HMN1-o0bsMs[/url]

Unfortunately the masses are still filling the clubs to hear a cover band play "Don't Stop Believing" sad but true.

I have played in originals bands many years ago, and it was all rehearsals and maybe a few no pay gigs. At my age that route was a dead end. I like gigging to respectable crowds and getting paid a set fee. I found a band that provides just that, I was lucky, because openings in working bands are hard to find.

The OP has to define what he really wants then determine if it's realistic in his part of the world.

Peace

Blue

Edited February 28, 2015 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1425133677' post='2704323']
That's what I was trying to figure out - no market for it, does that mean that originals bands still play but get naff all, or do they just not bother airing their stuff in public at all because no-one wants to hear it and no-one cares?
[/quote]

I would re-phrase what I originally said to "little to no market for originals bands" in Milwaukee. There's Frank's Power Plant, Garibaldi's, The Up & Under and Linneman's River West. There's the Rave, but that pay to play.

Daryl

[dmccombe7]

Whow this has been some read so far.

Sympathise with you but i'm with JTUK on this and should maybe give the singer a few weeks altho don't know what the personal issues are at home but band support plays a big part IMO.
You will always come across things that will hold you up ie illness, family issues even holidays can put you back a few weeks so you need to accept some of it. If it continues to happen then look for a replacement.
Someone else mentioned the singer needs to pick the songs. 110% agree with that altho members can make suggestions for the singer to pick from. That way singer is comfortable with the songs and within their vocal range.

If singer doesn't get it sorted then move on.

I started playing in bands again approx 6yrs ago after a 20yr break. I've been in or offered by far too many bands to count. Done everything from Tribute, covers and originals from Rock, Blues to Prog.
Some were great musicians but continually argued or had excuses for not learning the songs for a rehearsal and others i found the music just didn't really suit what i was looking for.
One band that were great bunch of guys playing T.Rex tribute & Glam covers band were just a bit too demanding and someone touched on this earlier. My mistake was that i had taken early retirement and thought i had lots of spare time and liked the idea of regular gigging however 2 gigs every weekend turned out to be too much for me and i had to leave. Think people need to be aware of how demanding it is gigging every weekend.

To me that was just the way it was and i just kept looking for something that suited me.

I was then offered to come along to a rehearsal with a group of guys who just wanted to have a bit of fun, play the songs they liked and if gigs come along then all well and good. Its more like a meeting of friends and we just play a few songs for fun.
We have already gigged and went down very well and i was fair pleased with it. Again it was a relaxing gig if that makes sense.
We rehearse weekly and covering blues based funk rock but i am totally relaxed for first time in a band and thoroughly enjoying it. They have now moved on to wanting the gigs maybe once a month.

NEVER GIVE UP. LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO WORRY. MOVE ON AND FIND WHAT SUITS YOU.

Dave

Edited March 6, 2017 by dmccombe7

[TimR]

Thread is only two years old.

[bassjim]

although its a 2 year old thread perhaps my 2pence may help anyone in the same situation now or in the future regarding singers. ..

So my regular band were doing the: get singer. singer bad.sack singer.start again. get good singer. singer leaves because of better money elsewhere/joins a cruise ship. will only sing for x amount ect.

Our solution ( we play covers BTW)

We became a collective. We are the band featuring ........insert name of singer. We currently have 4 singers in our pool of vocalist right now. They all have something thats unique to them and we change the set slightly depending on which one is singing. Each singer is free to do what ever she wants music wise and can be in several bands if she likes so we dont get this commitment problem.
Every gig we want to do we have a choice of 4. We book in advance and offer the gigs out on a fair share basis.
No complaints from band ,singers , landlords or audiences. Keeps it interesting for band and audiences alike because we do things differently depending on whos on which night. This weekend just gone did a gig saturday with one and sunday with another.
Any time any one of them wants to make a solid commitment we can consider it but it works better for us when they know that they are very very replaceable.
We even have a few singers that would like a piece of the action and would like to join our collective, but we don't need the cover right now but have them "on file" so to speak.
If we pick up a wedding in a pub its automatically offered to the girl thats singing that night. If she cant make the date we offer it around.
Anyway thats what we do. Maybe you could advertise for a collective of musicians as well as singers. Every one learns the same core set and add what you like depending on whos doing which gig.

[TimR]

I like it.

Would work really well for us as our singer has just started a new job which means he is busy during wedding season.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1488802462' post='3251834']
Thread is only two years old.
[/quote]

what a dafty i am.

It came up on my "new threads" tab and i didn't bother looking at the dates.

Ach well it was fun reading tho.

Dave

[TimR]

Someone pasted a load of junk and it got bumped. It's been removed now.

[KevB]

So I guess the real question is 'what is solo4652 actually doing now?'.....

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1488815522' post='3252001']
So I guess the real question is 'what is solo4652 actually doing now?'.....
[/quote]


Update please. I don't want to appear any more stupid than need be. Comments welcome of course without issue provided they're nice ones.

Dave

[ivansc]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1425030802' post='2703070']
learn to sing yourself, seriously, have lessons if need be, practice at home by recording yourself and singing through headphones, I improved my singing loads by just doing open mics, most of it is just confidence
[/quote]

THIS! I came back from many years in the USA to discover all my usual sources of work had dried up. One surviving agent suggested I learn to sing, get some backing tracks & be a singing guitarist till I found other work. Saved my bacon! I did of course end up back doing bass work as well but in the meantime the grocery bill and mortgage got paid PLUS I never had to worry about flouncing singers.

[solo4652]

Well, well! Bit surprised to see this thread again! Quite timely, actually....

I took a break from bass-playing while I got to grips with the repercussions of newly-diagnosed neck Arthritis and associated left hand and arm weakness. I had to give up competitive sailing, after 50 years, and golf after 4 months, which was supposed to be sailing's replacement. I sold all my 34" basses and switched to 30", and that has helped a lot because of the reduced arm and fret reaches for my left arm.

Having (sort of) accepted the need for some fairly major life changes, I went looking for a band. Again. In the past two years, this is what I've done

Band 1 - Existing pub band. Good female singer, poor male singer who overruled her. Her health and reliability was very variable. Guitarist became a first-time dad and couldn't commit to the band. In theory, the band still exists but, in practice, it doesn't. So, I joined;

Band 2 - Male acoustic guitarist and his sister who were looking to expand their act into some sort of full band. Both decent singers. They recruited a very good friend of theirs as drummer and myself on bass. All going well and just starting to talk about getting gigs when drummer gets promoted to a London job and is now commuting weekly. He's struggling to find the time for Sunday rehearsals, but band leader seems reluctant to look for a replacement. The last 4 rehearsals have been cancelled. Next one due this coming Sunday. I'm not hopeful. That brings us to last night;

(Non)-Band 3. At short notice, I spent a lot of time to learn songs for an audition for a "semi-pro functions band, not playing pubs and clubs..." I had my suspicions ( band leader couldn't/wouldn't send me the band's name, website/Soundcloud, setlist), but I decided to attend, mainly because I'd said I would. Total farce. As I suspected, the band was largely a figment of the singer's imagination. He had massively over-promised and wasted a lot of people's time. I was very irritated, and so were the keys player and drummer.

Pretty fed up today, for all the reasons I listed in my OP. On the upside, I'm so pleased to have bought my FSR Fender Japan Mustang. Cracking bass with a really clear, middy sound. It meant I was able to get over the sale of my much-loved, but heavy, Yamaha BB 1024.

Edited March 6, 2017 by solo4652