How soon is too soon?

[steve-bbb]

repetition repetition repetition

slowly slowly.... little bit faster ...... bit faster some more

etc etc

[JTUK]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1423432703' post='2684775']
Yeah to me this seems right, ive known mainly guitar players but other people who play various instruments. And while you do get these people who can play well, learn and gig in a short period of time this is the exception rather than the rule.
I have 1 friend who was good enough in around a year of playing on guitar, he was a natural and put in the practice was also confident. But most people ive known have taken 3 plus years before they gigged.

[/quote]

It's not so much what they can play or think they can play... it is everything else as well.
But if you get an early chance to get out into the real world, then go for it, just don't be surprised
if you get knocked back..and getting knocked back is quite hard to recover from.

I do think getting out there and trying all sorts is the thing to do... as you learn just as much from
'how not to do its, as you do from the good guys. But the simple fact is that with the best will
in the world, good guys aren't going to really want to take you on. But onward and upward..

The worst musical situations, IMO, is the bunch of mates you've played with for eons, and
no one is able to bring anything else in..as you've all learnt the good AND bad together
but that is all you know..??

[uncle psychosis]

Legend has it that Paul Simonon couldn't play the bass at all when he joined The Clash.

Just get out there and do it. There are far worse things in life than occasionally mucking up a bass line in a song.

[Weststarx]

I think if you are thinking of joining a band so soon that is a great thing - it took me 3 years to pluck up the courage!

Being in a band is great, it will make you a lot more musical and a better player as well.

Eventhough you've not been playing long do not be under the false impression that everyone is better than you - you will be amazed at how many terrible players are out there in bands! I think being a musical person is the most important thing, fancy playing and silly noodling can come later...

The biggest fustration we have in our band is our singers timing. He can really sing but is the least musical person I know - you can imagine my horror when he brought in a tambourin! It was like that scene from the Steve Martin film 'The Jerk', I couldnt contain the laughter and had to make up I was laughing at something else!

[Nicko]

I think you can only realistically join a band that if your playing is at a level where you can play notes at the right time. If your timing is off you'll either not pass an audition or you'll get sacked pretty quick. Doesn't matter if the notes are a bit buzzy or if you cant do the complex stuff. See the thread on playing root notes as well.

[Froggy]

Good point Nicko, luckily I don't seem to have any issues with timing, but that's another thing for me to keep in mind.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Froggy' timestamp='1423508976' post='2685733']
Good point Nicko, luckily I don't seem to have any issues with timing, but that's another thing for me to keep in mind.
[/quote]


I'd be interested in what you can play after 3 months and how you see that in a potential band context.
Not wishing to embarrass you but a recent soundcloud clip put up was pretty ropey...
again in context.. and the part was also pretty basic.
Just trying to get a feel for what people think is workable and would be 'acceptable,

[Ancient Mariner]

Playing with others requires a very different set of skills from playing to backing tracks in a bedroom: there's an unspoken language to learn, how to flow with people, when to start & stop, when to be louder or quieter & so on, unless one is playing set pieces a la recording. Jam nights or a simple band can be a good place to start acquiring these skills, but don't be surprised if it feels very different from playing alone.

JTUKs point about standards is a good one. Although I jammed on guitar with a mate playing bass in the first year, as a guitarist (who used to practice 20+ hours/week at 16) I wasn't really up to playing out until after about 3 years. While a couple of chords where OK for punk, if you want to make music it takes more than attitude and volume.

[SpaceChick]

JTUK - I think you are coming across as quite harsh in your last post.

I'm sure we were all ropey when we started out. However, everyone has to start somewhere in a band environment and I think if Froggy can find others that want to play with him and he wants to play with then it will be a great development experience.

We all need to find our level whether we've been playing 3 months or 30 years and everyone was a beginner once and not everyone is going to be the next Pino or Jaco!!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Froggy' timestamp='1423429191' post='2684701']
Thanks for all the replies guys, I guess I'm about to embark on a search for a band. I'll have to learn how to go about that now too
Unfortunately jam/open mic nights are out for me, they all seem to be midweek and as I said before, my job keeps me away.

[/quote]

I may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but I got the impression that you're a long-distance driver?

In that case, your job may keep you away from any regular jams near home, but it takes you close to loads of regular jams in other places.

The internet is your friend.

At many/most jams, you don't even necessarily have to bring a bass. It's pretty much the tradition that the house band will lend an instrument to anyone who needs it.

Incidentally, I started playing nine years ago, which is recent enough that I can remember the timescales.[list]
[*]3 months in, starting to jam with CDs designed for the novice bass player to play along with
[*]6 months in, starting to jam with individual guitarists, most at the same stage of development as me
[*]8 months in, attending a local jam session and just starting to get up
[*]11 months in, joined my first band
[*]16 months in, played my first gig in front of a genuine audience
[/list]

[discreet]

[quote name='Phil Adams' timestamp='1423397344' post='2684242']
In at the deep end. You'll learn so much.
[/quote]
[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1423479804' post='2685157']
It's never too soon to get into a band and start gigging.
[/quote]
[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1423483796' post='2685232']
Just get out there and do it.
[/quote]

I think a pattern is emerging... one that I agree with. When I joined my first band I couldn't play bass at all.
In fact, I didn't even have a bass or any means to get one. It didn't seem to matter much, it all worked out in the end.

[JTUK]

[quote name='SpaceChick' timestamp='1423513224' post='2685827']
JTUK - I think you are coming across as quite harsh in your last post.

I'm sure we were all ropey when we started out. However, everyone has to start somewhere in a band environment and I think if Froggy can find others that want to play with him and he wants to play with then it will be a great development experience.
............
[/quote]

I think getting out and playing is a great goal.. many never get out of the bedroom..
but you need to have realistic goals as like it of not, you will be judged in the harsh world
even by the people you aim to play with...
Also, I think learning on the job before you are ready is fine but you do the mistakes behind closed
doors. Nobody wants to be crushed in a live playing arena.

I think Happy Jacks timescale is useful. I seem to recall my first 'gig' within a year but the audience was
very very polite as the keyboards mum arranged it for her friends and when you learn as kids you are practising
like a demon.. and I was still ropey. probably still am

[discreet]

Well I think it does no harm to get out there regardless. You might embarrass yourself but nobody's going to die and it is by far the quickest way to improve. Isn't that what punk was all about? Anyone can pick up an instrument and have a go?

[JTUK]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1423517998' post='2685909']
Well I think it does no harm to get out there regardless. You might embarrass yourself but nobody's going to die and it is by far the quickest way to improve. Isn't that what punk was all about? Anyone can pick up an instrument and have a go?
[/quote]

it was..but 90% of it was sh*te..IIRC

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1423517998' post='2685909']
Well I think it does no harm to get out there regardless. You might embarrass yourself but nobody's going to die and it is by far the quickest way to improve. Isn't that what punk was all about? Anyone can pick up an instrument and have a go?
[/quote]

And that's how we got Sid Vicious!

[alyctes]

Go for it. Good luck

[seashell]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1423517998' post='2685909']
Well I think it does no harm to get out there regardless. You might embarrass yourself but nobody's going to die and it is by far the quickest way to improve. Isn't that what punk was all about? Anyone can pick up an instrument and have a go?
[/quote]

I agree with this! I joined a very ropey band after about a year. We were all a bit rubbish. We played at Open Mics. Nobody booed us, threw things or even said anything harsh to us
You can have a lot of fun when you're learning - it's amazing how forgiving audiences can be.

I hope the OP finds some way of playing live soon. You don't have to be perfect and I bet you'll be really pleased at how quickly you improve.

[Froggy]

I don't think JTUK's comment is harsh at all, I think it's very pertinent. After all my experience is very limited, I've asked the question to hear advice from you all who know much more than I do.
In answer, I've been concentrating on scales, arpeggios, patterns and grooves in my lessons. My teacher will often give me a bass line and chord progression which I'll play over a drum track with him playing guitar. I guess it's a bit like jamming, and I'm encouraged to change the line if I think of ways to improve it.
As for what I can play, I'd say only 3 songs in all, and they're simple ones. Come as you are by nirvana, the chain by Fleetwood Mac, and Lady marmalade by pretty much everyone. (yeah, I have eclectic tastes) but I've learned these within a couple of hours practicing, and I play them regularly to tighten them up. oh, and a 12 bar blues that my teacher gave me, but the name escapes me.
Playing with my teacher is why I think my timing is good, he says that I keep in time really well.
One thing this thread has shown me, I may not be ready, but when I give it a go, not to let the knock backs disheartened me.

Happyjack, yeah, I'm a long distance driver (for now) and although I know there are jam sessions all over the place, when I Park up I usually have between 9 and 11 hours to get some rest before starting very early the next morning, and added to that, it's not easy to park an artic overnight in a lot of towns these days!

I think that my best course of action at the moment is to continue as I am, until such time as I'm no longer on the road all the time and can really commit to gigging and rehearsing with a band.

[discreet]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1423518683' post='2685924']
it was..but 90% of it was sh*te..IIRC
[/quote]

Possibly, but the remaining 10% was brilliant and wouldn't have happened any other way...

[paul h]

Nothing wrong with getting in a band as early as possible. You'll learn quicker in a band environment too.

[blue]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1423512559' post='2685815']
Playing with others requires a very different set of skills from playing to backing tracks in a bedroom: there's an unspoken language to learn, how to flow with people, when to start & stop, when to be louder or quieter & so on, unless one is playing set pieces a la recording. Jam nights or a simple band can be a good place to start acquiring these skills, but don't be surprised if it feels very different from playing alone.

JTUKs point about standards is a good one. Although I jammed on guitar with a mate playing bass in the first year, as a guitarist (who used to practice 20+ hours/week at 16) I wasn't really up to playing out until after about 3 years. While a couple of chords where OK for punk, if you want to make music it takes more than attitude and volume.
[/quote]

My take is a little different. I started playing bass in 1964 and started gigging in 1966 at age 11. It was different back then every kid in the neighborhood was learning to play electric guitar, bass guitar or drums. All spawned by the Beatles appearance on American Television on February 9th, 1964. At the time I thought everybody was in a band. We practiced, learned to wood shed and we took lessons.

50 years later I'm still at it, practicing for hours on end and still gigging every weekend.

I say it's never to soon, today there are kids out there on big tours that know little more than how to get around E, A , D and G root notes and haven't been playing more than a year.

Blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='Froggy' timestamp='1423520887' post='2685983']
I don't think JTUK's comment is harsh at all, I think it's very pertinent. After all my experience is very limited, I've asked the question to hear advice from you all who know much more than I do.
In answer, I've been concentrating on scales, arpeggios, patterns and grooves in my lessons. My teacher will often give me a bass line and chord progression which I'll play over a drum track with him playing guitar. I guess it's a bit like jamming, and I'm encouraged to change the line if I think of ways to improve it.
As for what I can play, I'd say only 3 songs in all, and they're simple ones. Come as you are by nirvana, the chain by Fleetwood Mac, and Lady marmalade by pretty much everyone. (yeah, I have eclectic tastes) but I've learned these within a couple of hours practicing, and I play them regularly to tighten them up. oh, and a 12 bar blues that my teacher gave me, but the name escapes me.
Playing with my teacher is why I think my timing is good, he says that I keep in time really well.
One thing this thread has shown me, I may not be ready, but when I give it a go, not to let the knock backs disheartened me.

...............
[/quote]
Froggy, which style do you play..fingers or plectrum?
The tracks you mentioned are indeed a mix,
The Chain is more than the riff at the end...so assume you know that..?
and a 12 bar learnt well will pretty automatically add another 50 or so songs to your knowledge
base straight away.. especially if you can shift the key of them.

If you can play fingerstyle, then a good test of time and technique is to play
Stereophonics 'Dakota'. It is a rigid straight 8 part for bass and the trick is to get
it smooth across the changes and the first change is difficult because it is down a tone and a
half ( 3 frets ) on the same string so you need to decide how to fret the first note ( typically
an E on the A string, 7th fret. A tough choice between 3rd or pinkie which is hard to fret cleanly
but makes the step down easy... or use the index and get in a mess changing down as the landing
freting finger will also be the index finger needing you to shift the whole left hand quicklt, precisely and cleanly
within the time between notes. You can't miss or waver here, unfortunatley..
Anyway, if you can do the whole verse with good time and consistancy and make it sound even,
then I do indeed applaud you as I see many players at gigs who can't do that. A plectrum makes that
sort of thing much much easier, but it is beyond more than a few finger players that I see.
The 'lesson' in this is to get the straight 8 notes firm and rigid, consistant ... and er,... straight 8th notes ( quavers )
and the song fails totally if the bass can't do this

Anyway... if anything I've said doesn't make too much sense, then maybe ask your teacher to explain
as again, these are the types of terms people will throw at you in a musical environment.

Just an exmaple of an easy song butchered because it isn't actually as easy as it seems.
It is harder to play these type of lines at this stage than lines that move around a bit more
and have space as they are more forgiving .. Dakota is no let-up bass wise.

[Nicko]

Blimey JTUK, thats a bit of an ask. I play a mixture of fingers and plectrum depending on the track but Dakota is strictly a pick song for me (must chuggers will be pick - fingers used for more feel). I've only been playing bass properly for about 5 years (plus 25 years on six strings) and still developing my right hand technique but I reckon Dakota on fingers comes under advanced. Lack of finger technique didn't stop me depping at a 2 hour gig on bass a week after picking up the bass.

[Froggy]

I play fingerstyle, but I'll take a look at dakota. After Nicko's comment though I'll not get disheartened if I can't get it.

Here's a question though, what makes it harder fingerstyle compared to plectrum? When I play if feel that my hands work independently but in concert with each other. What would be different if I was playing with a plectrum?

[SpaceChick]

You can generally get a faster speed due to the up/down nature of a plectrum.

Finger style, it takes a lot of practise and endurance to get that kind of speed. It's also quickly lost too.

When I played in a metal band that included a few Iron Maiden tracks my finger speed was super fast. Now I play in the Floyd band I've lost the level of speed I used to have. I know I could get it back with practice though. It's like the old saying "if you don't use it, you lose it!"