Advice please on buying fretless bass

[aardvark]

Hi, I'd really welcome some advice on buying a fretless bass. I already have a Yamaha 4-string fretless but would now really like to progress to a 5 or 6-string. I'm looking to spend up to around £400 (£500 tops). Specific questions:

1. Does a 5-string always come strung B-E-A-D-G? I really want to play higher, not lower, so would want E-A-D-G-C. (Supplementary question, why is the top string tuned to C, not B like a guitar?)

2. If the answer to 1 is yes, can a 5-string fretless be restrung E-A-D-G-C without modifying the nut (and bridge?)?

3. Would I do better to try to find a 6-string (or even 7-string), assuming they come tuned to B-E-A-D-G-C?

4. Advice very welcome on which fretless bass to go for. I like the look of the ESP LTD B205SM (listed on Thomann at £356). Any good? I like my Yamaha but they appear not to make a 5-string fretless. Secondhand a better bet than new?

[Lw.]

Most 5-stings I've seen in the shops come with a low B though I'm sure there are some out there that come with the C but yes, you can just re-string them (and re-setup).

I imagine it's C because it means the standard scale/arpeggio patterns remain the same - I can't think of any good reason to have a bass tuned with a flattened 5ith string, other than to keep the guitar chord fingering patterns but you wouldn't really want to do that would you?

Beware with basses over 5-strings; the necks start to feel like massive planks of wood - many get used to it but for me it started to feel like a struggle & not at all comfortable like 4/5 strings.

[BassBus]

I'll second Lw on the planks of wood on 6 and above strings. If you don't want the low B then avoid.

I recently switched to fivers for the same reason as you want to. I have changed strings on two of them from low B to high C. Didn't have to change the nut and no problems with them. You will have to adjust the setup though.

It's a high C, as opposed B, so the bass is tuned in forths. You really want to keep it that way as it makes playing chords so much easier. Wherever you play the chord on the neck it is the same for whatever key you play it in. A major chord is the same shape whether it is a C or Db major or any other chord.

As for instruments. Yes the ESP LTDs are brilliant basses, worth far more than the money you pay. I have the four string fretless. Lovely sound and very slim, comfortable neck. Also worth looking at Corts. Made in the same factory as ESP LTDs. The Cort B5 would be good. Not as widely available though. The Ibanez SR series would be worth looking at as well. SR305 or a second hand SR505 would fit your budget.

Edited June 2, 2014 by BassBus

[aardvark]

Thanks guys for helpful advice. The Ibanez looks good (I have two Ibanez guitars and am very happy with them) but it appears to be fretted and I want fretless. I'll investigate Corts too, but the ESP is looking good at present.

[BigRedX]

Some observations…

With your budget you are going to struggle to find a 5-string with a decent low B and a 6 string is almost certainly out of the question unless you get very lucky with a second hand bargain.

So swapping low B for high C might be a smart move. Depending on string types and gauges you may need to have a new nut cut and might also need to tighten the truss rod slightly as the C will almost certainly be higher tension.

However IME I could never get a decent fretless sound out of high C when I tried it (it was just too thin sounding and I couldn't get the same rich mwah sound that I could higher up on the G) and went back to having the bass strung B to G again.

IMO the best 5-string fretless bass you can get for under £1k is the Ibanez Gary Willis signature. After that you really need to be looking at something like a second hand Pedulla Pentabuzz.

[aardvark]

Thanks BigRedX. Good point about high C on fretless.

[Grangur]

FWIW I had an Ibanez GW35 and was never too happy with it. For a 5 string I preferred the ESP LTD [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]B-205SMFL.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]The bridge wasn't too good at taking a fat B string but it could be good with a high C. I'd agree that on fretless the G can sometimes give a bit of a "plink" rather than a good growl, but the ESP was ok.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]At a guide, the one I had sold for £220 on Ebay. [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4] [/size][/font][/color][size=4]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/234604-sold-on-ebay%3B-ltd-esp-5-string-fretless/page__p__2435188__hl__esp__fromsearch__1[/size]


It has a beaut of a neck.

[Woodinblack]

Funnily enough I have just bought one of those. I have a squire VM, but I am getting used to 5 now, so fancied a fretless 5 to go with its fretted friends.

[humapuma]

Hi aardvark,

Do you play 5 string fretted at all or are you exclusively a fretless player?

If you do play fretted as well and haven't tried a 5 then why not pick up something cheap and give that a spin? It would be much easier to find a 2nd hand fretted, and easy enough to move on again.

Of course that's a logical response, and not at all appropriate for BC

[aardvark]

Thanks to everyone for very helpful advice and suggestions. I'll probably go for the ESP. [size=4] [/size]

[aardvark]

[quote name='humapuma' timestamp='1401830316' post='2467394']
Hi aardvark,

Do you play 5 string fretted at all or are you exclusively a fretless player?

If you do play fretted as well and haven't tried a 5 then why not pick up something cheap and give that a spin? It would be much easier to find a 2nd hand fretted, and easy enough to move on again.

Of course that's a logical response, and not at all appropriate for BC
[/quote]

Hi Humapuma,
[size=4]I much prefer fretless and actually sold my fretted 4-string a while back as it was just gathering dust. Thanks for the suggestion though. [/size]

[humapuma]

No worries.

Happy mwah-ing!

[bjelkeman]

Aardvark, check out the new Ibanez SR Portamento both four and five string fretless. Tried it in the weekend at a bass get-together. Several of us that were really impressed by it. The piezo pickup has a killer sound.

[dmccombe7]

Had the 6 string fretted ESP and it was good value for money but seemed quite one-tonish to me. Had a nice low growl but a little too heavy on the bass almost boomy. Neck was ok but string spacing was the issue for me. I like 18mm at bridge where the ESP was 16 i think. I kept hitting wrong strings or missing strings when doing faster runs. That may have been due to switch from 4 to 6 strings tho. Found the 18mm spacing on my Overwater fretless far easier to deal with.
Pretty sure Yamaha do a 5 string fretless but they will be rare.
Think the Ibanez range seem pretty impressive too for the money and they are usually well built.

Good luck with the search and playing fretless. It takes a little while to get it right but its great fun trying and you'll find you have more expression of sound with your fretless than fretted IMO.

all the best

Dave

[alyctes]

I'm just going to stick my neck out here and suggest tuning in fourths, but from D rather than E... because sometimes that blue low D is really nice, if you're in E. But I've given up fives anyway

[aardvark]

Very grateful for everyone's advice and suggestions. I've just ordered the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]ESP LTD B205SM from Thomann, along with a Roland MicroCube bass amp. I'll let you know how I get on.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]alyctes - interesting idea about tuning in fourths. Has anyone else tried that?[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]More advice welcome: any thoughts on strings for the 5-string fretless bass? I recently put some D'Addario extra-light flatwound chromes on my Yamaha fretless 4, which I like better than the Galli flats I had on before. Maybe go for the same on the ESP 5-string? What about La Bella black nylon tapewound - are they good?[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4] [/size][/font][/color]

[aardvark]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1401835369' post='2467454']
Aardvark, check out the new Ibanez SR Portamento both four and five string fretless. Tried it in the weekend at a bass get-together. Several of us that were really impressed by it. The piezo pickup has a killer sound.
[/quote]

Thanks bjelkeman. The Ibanez looks very good but costs a lot more than the ESP. I'll see how I get on with a 'fiver'. I can always upgrade later.

[waynepunkdude]

Make sure you look for the ones without metal bits every half inch or so on the neck.

Edited June 6, 2014 by waynepunkdude

[aardvark]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1402047130' post='2469455']
Make sure you look for the ones without metal bits every half inch or so on the neck.
[/quote]

Thanks waynepunkdude. I will, don't fret....

Edited June 6, 2014 by aardvark

[oggiesnr]

It's horses for courses but I prefer the low B to the high C. I'm playing a lot folk and country so that low D is really useful. I did restring it for a while and found that it really didn't gain me as much. I also had a mad spell where I re-tuned it in fifths (C,G,D,A,E) but the shifts were just too much for my small hands.

Steve

[aardvark]

Just realised that I wrote (5 posts up) '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]interesting idea about tuning in fourths'. What I obviously meant was 'tuning in fourths from D', which is what Alcytes had suggested. Has anyone tried it?[/size][/font][/color]

[funkgod]

fretless, as much as i love certain makes of bass, with a fretless i would just buy anything that
sang in my hands, ( dont be biased toward a make.)
big failings for me, or my first check, is the G string, make sure this is loud with nice swells
so many fretless basses die badly round the C to D notes on the G string, some go into
a more of a harmonic than a solid note also in this area, not so noticable on a fretted as the steel in the fret
helps with sustain, but much more noticable on a fretless having the softer note made of wood and skin.
i have a fair few fretless basses and the one i use for recording (if ever) is the cheapest of the lot !!
worth checking

[ezbass]

2nd hand Ibanez GWB35 if you can find one (there's often one for sale here on BC); I absolutely adore mine, a total mwah machine with a good low B.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1401738836' post='2466439']
FWIW I had an Ibanez GW35 and was never too happy with it.
[/quote]

On the other hand I have GWB35 (it was my first fretless and first 5 sting) and love it to the extent that I went out and bought an SR505 purely on spec, on the basis that it was the nearest fretted equivalent. However my experience of other fretless basses is pretty limited, and I've not played an ESP, so temper my opinion with that. The GWB35 was £300 second hand.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Count Bassy