Noise petition

[danthevan]

appologies if it's already on here, but have a look at this and sign if you agree!
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/65582

[skidder652003]

signed, does this relate to the Bristol venue?

[danthevan]

not a clue, just popped up on my facebook so shared it with all the musical friends!

[steve-bbb]

signed and spread around

especially locally in rochester at the moment some zealous jobsworth in the local council probably looking for promotion has recently been decimating several long established local music venues

Edited May 30, 2014 by steve-bbb

[danthevan]

i'm doing a website for my local sports club, and done a bit of googling to find info on it, and come across their licence on the council website. They have a band there couple of times a month, and on the licence it states a 60dbA limit on any 'functions'. i think i have done farts louder than that

[bigash]

[i]Done,[/i]
[i]good luck.[/i]

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='danthevan' timestamp='1401471893' post='2464022']
i'm doing a website for my local sports club, and done a bit of googling to find info on it, and come across their licence on the council website. They have a band there couple of times a month, and on the licence it states a 60dbA limit on any 'functions'. i think i have done farts louder than that
[/quote]

Measured where though?

[joeystrange]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1401467345' post='2463955']
signed, does this relate to the Bristol venue?
[/quote]

I believe this is exactly what happened to The Fleece, yes.

[danthevan]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1401494625' post='2464322']
Measured where though?
[/quote]
exactly! not specified 'where' !

[Bassman Sam]

Signed.

[hollywoodrox]

Signed here , I also read about a venue closing in brighton as someone moved into a flat overhead and complained of the noise !!

[Dr.Dave]

Sorry but I can't sign that. For many years folk who live in built up areas have had to put up with noise pollution from music venues til god know what time. Why should they ? Any recent legislation is designed to finally give folk some respite. If anyone thinks that's all a bit 'spoilsport' then tough. There are many things venues can do to stop the problem but from what I experience , a sign in a pub that says 'keep the door shut when the band's on' and a 'no noise after midnight' policy is just not cutting the mustard and is all too often 'relaxed'. I'm always hearing how it's just one single grumpy old geezer etc etc. but I reckon it's many , many more. There are enough pub and other venues big and small well away from concentrations of domestic dwellings for us to blast the walls down in without causing other peace loving folk a problem and enough acoustic bands - and many other quieter forms of music - to play in places that 'want to promote music' ( ie. make a buck on musos backs) that are in places likely to disturb the Englishman in his castle. Of course there will be borderline cases - maybe genuine , long established venues recently affected would be a good example of that - but they are the victims of other venues who don't give jack sh*t about communities or music who have long taken the piss in the name of profit. When legislation has to be put in place there will always be losers , sadly.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='hollywoodrox' timestamp='1401669279' post='2465743']
Signed here , I also read about a venue closing in brighton as someone moved into a flat overhead and complained of the noise !!
[/quote]


[url="http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/council-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-2625/"]http://www.kentonlin...risy-over-2625/[/url]

[url="http://medwaybroadside.wordpress.com/2013/07/05/yr-citys-a-sucker-medway-council-fails-its-local-music-scene-again/"]http://medwaybroadside.wordpress.com/2013/07/05/yr-citys-a-sucker-medway-council-fails-its-local-music-scene-again/[/url]

[url="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/noise_abatement_orders"]https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/noise_abatement_orders[/url]

seems to be going on all over the country - easy way for council jobsworths to meet the ever increasing list of targets

no definitions - no consistency

Edited June 2, 2014 by steve-bbb

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1401697639' post='2465830']
Sorry but I can't sign that. For many years folk who live in built up areas have had to put up with noise pollution from music venues til god know what time. Why should they ? Any recent legislation is designed to finally give folk some respite. If anyone thinks that's all a bit 'spoilsport' then tough. There are many things venues can do to stop the problem but from what I experience , a sign in a pub that says 'keep the door shut when the band's on' and a 'no noise after midnight' policy is just not cutting the mustard and is all too often 'relaxed'. I'm always hearing how it's just one single grumpy old geezer etc etc. but I reckon it's many , many more. There are enough pub and other venues big and small well away from concentrations of domestic dwellings for us to blast the walls down in without causing other peace loving folk a problem and enough acoustic bands - and many other quieter forms of music - to play in places that 'want to promote music' ( ie. make a buck on musos backs) that are in places likely to disturb the Englishman in his castle. Of course there will be borderline cases - maybe genuine , long established venues recently affected would be a good example of that - but they are the victims of other venues who don't give jack sh*t about communities or music who have long taken the piss in the name of profit. When legislation has to be put in place there will always be losers , sadly.
[/quote]

Copy of the petition wording:


[color=#231F20][font=arial][size=1][size=4]"We call upon the Secretary of State to conduct an urgent review of all applicable Noise Legislation so that the collective right of local communities to be able to enjoy well-run and managed music venues is properly balanced within the law against the individual rights of owners and occupiers of adjoining properties to limit environmental noise.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#231F20][font=arial][size=1][size=4]We request that this review specifically addresses the possibility of new owner/occupiers or developers misusing existing legislation to demand a lowering of environmental noise in a zone in which it has traditionally existed, resulting in the potential closure of highly valued community spaces including music venues, church halls and arts centres."[/size][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#231F20][font=arial][size=1][size=4]The first paragraph is pretty specific about a balanced approach between venues and residents.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#231F20][font=arial][size=1][size=4]The second paragraph is fairly specific about about people/developers moving into an area with existing music venues and then complaining.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#231F20][font=arial][size=1][size=4]I can't see anything in it that contradicts your comments.[/size][/size][/font][/color]

Edited June 2, 2014 by Count Bassy

[cheddatom]

I'd quite like a legal limit on the volume level of gigs. Not necessarily one of these sound limiters that trips off the power, but just a rule to keep it to X level. When I go to tiny venues and the PA is whacked up to compete with ridiculous full stacks and everyone is standing there without ear plugs... this is doing permanent damage to their ears and no-one seems to care.

[Dr.Dave]

Yes , I did read that wording , possibly more carefully than you read my opinions. I should think anyone's thoughts on the second para would have to include whether the traditions of a particular environment are more important than the urgent need for new housing , and the rights of those occupying that housing. That urgent need , of course , stems from differing reasons , the cold facts of which - were I to air them here - would doubtless result in my being chucked out of this forum too.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Dr.Dave

[UglyDog]

As many of you will know, this is [u]exactly[/u] what happened to The Point in Cardiff.
Some more background info on the Fleece's case:
"[i]The proposed scheme to convert an office block to approx 80 privately owned flats would leave the iconic live music venue in a nightmare position where people's bedrooms would be located within 20 metres of the stage.[/i]
[i]Chris Sharp, owner of The Fleece, says: [/i][i]'The Fleece has thrived as a venue for [b]32 years[/b]. One of the key factors in its success is its location. The lack of residents in the surrounding streets has meant the venue has been able to offer live music 7 nights per week and club nights until 4am at weekends without disturbing anyone. During its entire history The Fleece has not had any issues with noise complaints. If the huge office block located right next door is given the green light to be converted into approx 80 privately owned flats we would anticipate a deluge of complaints as soon as people move in.'[/i]"
So as you can see, it's pretty far from being just a noisy pub in a residential area.

This pic gives an idea of the scale of the problem.



How the hell can it be even remotely fair and just for someone to move into a house/flat near a long established music venue, [i]knowing full well that the venue is there[/i], and then complain about the venue being there? Especially if the venue has been there longer than the houses/flats?

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1401709123' post='2465986']
Yes , I did read that wording , possibly more carefully than you read my opinions. I should think anyone's thoughts on the second para would have to include whether the traditions of a particular environment are more important than the urgent need for new housing , and the rights of those occupying that housing. That urgent need , of course , stems from differing reasons , the cold facts of which - were I to air them here - would doubtless result in my being chucked out of this forum too.
[/quote]

With reference to the housing situation I could quip that "If they need the housing that badly then they can put up with a bit of noise", but I won't. However, I'm pretty sure that you know that in most of these cases it's a lot more to do with the developer making money than a burning desire to help ease the housing crisis.

As with all these things it's a question of balance. I have no idea of your circumstances, but I suspect that if someone were to try and take your livelihood/business away because they wanted to build some houses, then you would be pretty peed off. Similarly if they decided to close down the venue for your favourite past-time.

[Dr.Dave]

Funnily enough I really am on both sides of this coin - the most ironic of which was when I was the ...what was it .... over zealous council jobsworth that had to deal with a swathe of complaints from fed up residents who had put up with disturbed Saturday nights for years and , as it was put so quaintly to me at a tenants meeting , 'them noisy c***s last Sat'dy is the last f****g straw'. Thankfully they didn't know that the noisy c**t in question on the previous Saturday night was me !

[geoham]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1401709511' post='2465992']
How the hell can it be even remotely fair and just for someone to move into a house/flat near a long established music venue, [i]knowing full well that the venue is there[/i], and then complain about the venue being there? Especially if the venue has been there longer than the houses/flats?
[/quote]

I played in a venue suffering a similar problem a few weeks back. A long established function room / social club, playing a gig arranged by staff at a local call centre raising funds for a charity walk some of them were doing. We found out 20 mins before show time that there was a sound limiter, due to complaints from residents of recently built flats. The venue is on a busy road, and is close to the local secondary school, shops etc.

The person who arranged the night went a bit crazy, demanding they switched it off. Apparently, they had a previous night there with a DJ, whose equipment got damaged when the limiter cut the power. It was agreed when booking the venue that it would be disabled, but the venue denied it - though did eventually agree - as long as our sound engineer agreed to keep the volume under control.

At least have a dozen times during a 2 hour set, the old bloke from the venue was over moaning at the sound engineer. At end up, I could easily hear people on the dance-floor talking, and a couple of drunken bams (or chavs as you call them down south.....) loudly whistling over any songs they recognised.
Turns out, the drum mics ended up switched off entirely, and everything else was only up loud enough to be heard over the drums. The drummer sings too, so usually doesn't play too hard!

The result is that we certainly won't play the venue again, neither will the company who booked it - and they generally put on a couple of nights in there each year.

Surely anyone buying a flat that overlooks a social club must have some expectation of noise?

[bertbass]

Played quite a few venues where just one 'new' neighbour complained and messed it up for everyone. If you move to, or buy a house next to a pub or a club then you know what to expect and shouldn't be surprised.