Anybody tired of the bass guitar merry-go-round ?

[Dingus]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1397211521' post='2421798']
Materialistic purchase is an [i]addiction[/i]...i.e. there is a definite, short term high following the acquisition of a new "item" (bass).

But here's the thing...as with any addiction the high doesn't last and the subsequent "come down" leaves the addict with a desire to [i]recapture the high.[/i] To compound this[i] the law of diminishing returns is at work[/i]...the high [i]weakens [/i]after each hit (purchase)...leaving the addict forever seeking the same high that the original hit provided!

A word to the wise...this site is populated by and large by bass purchase addicts.

It's almost as if the central, most important core of the activity ....the human being interaction of playing the instrument to make music...is of no importance!

Don't believe me? Compare the amount of gear related posts to playing tip inquiries on bass chat..........
[/quote]

You are indeed a wise man. This is site as much ( if not more) for bass guitar owners as it is for bass guitar players.

Collecting basses is a hobby in its' own right, and a perfectly legitimate one that I personally have no problem with whatsoever. However, I cannot help but note that when I have been selling basses in the past, they have usually been relatively expensive high quality basses and I have fielded fairly involved technical questions from many of the prospective buyers about various elements of construction ect. When these individuals subsequently came to my house to pick the bass up and try it out, almost to a man [u],NONE[/u] of them could play for toffee. With only one exception I can think of , with the best will in the world, they were all utterly useless players, and many of them were adding my bass to a sizable collection of similarly high-end instruments. They spend their time agonizing about technicalities and academic issues to do with construction because it is somewhere to direct their energies elsewhere than confronting their shortcomings as a player.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Dingus

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1397311566' post='2422711']
They spend their time agonizing about technicalities and academic issues to do with construction because it is somewhere to direct their energies elsewhere than confronting their shortcomings as a player.
[/quote]

Ouch!

Good observation, I know what you mean about players who buy high end guitars and yet are still going through the gears in their learning. I'm just glad that they are having fun in the bass world and that they have got a cool instrument that makes them smile and PROUD to own.

No matter what level you are, if you can enjoy playing then that's all that matters in my personal view. Equally, I get a buzz out of seeing awesome players buy a bass off me and take it to levels that I couldn't.

For me, as long as it makes them buzz, I'm buzzing too. Oh, and the cash is always nice.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1397313564' post='2422733']
Ouch!

Good observation, I know what you mean about players who buy high end guitars and yet are still going through the gears in their learning. I'm just glad that they are having fun in the bass world and that they have got a cool instrument that makes them smile and PROUD to own.

No matter what level you are, if you can enjoy playing then that's all that matters in my personal view. Equally, I get a buzz out of seeing awesome players buy a bass off me and take it to levels that I couldn't.

For me, as long as it makes them buzz, I'm buzzing too. Oh, and the cash is always nice.
[/quote]

Absolutely, it's their money and if they want to buy basses with it, that is their prerogative and if it makes them happy then I can't see the harm, but imagine how much more fun they could have if they learnt to play a bit? . I'm also sure there are plenty of people out there who are much better than me and would be critical of my own playing and I have no pretensions or illusions in that respect. However, what was shocking about some of these punters was that they really were just like complete novices, despite having pro quality gear, and it has happened on numerous occasions over the years. Who knows, when it comes to bass playing maybe I have got high standards and I don't realize it?

Anyhow, I felt pangs of conscience in taking their money rather than telling them to buy a decent Squier and spend the rest on some lessons. Still took the money , though.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Dingus

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1397317984' post='2422774']


Absolutely, it's their money and if they want to buy basses with it, that is their prerogative and if it makes them happy then I can't see the harm, but imagine how much more fun they could have if they learnt to play a bit? . I'm also sure there are plenty of people out there who are much better than me and would be critical of my own playing and I have no pretensions or illusions in that respect. However, what was shocking about some of these punters was that they really were just like complete novices, despite having pro quality gear, and it has happened on numerous occasions over the years. Who knows, when it comes to bass playing maybe I have got high standards and I don't realize it?

Anyhow, I felt pangs of conscience in taking their money rather than telling them to buy a decent Squier and spend the rest on some lessons. Still took the money , though.
[/quote]

This makes funny and interesting reading. When you say novices how novice do you mean. Is it like the bloke/girl at the golf course with the latest and greatest in gadgets and golf clubs who nearly takes out the rear window of the secretary's Porsche at the first tee funny? If you have ever played golf you know this person. Or is it just that they have too much money and they think expensive basses will make them a better player?

Expensive basses maybe look nicer in some eyes because they cost more but if you aren't plucking and fretting right and haven't a clue about even tuning the instrument you are in bother before you start.

Edited April 12, 2014 by bassman344

[MikanHannille]

I actually am. I only have 3 basses at the moment. Fender jazz, Warwick jazzman and a Lakland skyline. Planning to sell the Fender and Warwick by the end of the year and get myself a US Lakland and that would be the end of my GAS.... Hopefully.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1397292480' post='2422484']
They're bass guitars, there's not much that can be said here about playing them that hasn't already been said here a thousand times. This forum is far more about buying and selling (an ranting in OT) than about musicianship, always has been. Nothing wrong with that, if it didn't have FS and OT it would probably have less than 1000 members, about 100 of them regular posters
[/quote] I was about to say the same thing. I joined to sell a pedal I didn't use and stuck around as it seemed polite. If I want to focus on playing or musicianship I tend to turn the computer off and just go practice...
[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1397311566' post='2422711']
You are indeed a wise man. This is site as much ( if not more) for bass guitar owners as it is for bass guitar players.

Collecting basses is a hobby in its' own right, and a perfectly legitimate one that I personally have no problem with whatsoever. However, I cannot help but note that when I have been selling basses in the past, they have usually been relatively expensive high quality basses and I have fielded fairly involved technical questions from many of the prospective buyers about various elements of construction ect. When these individuals subsequently came to my house to pick the bass up and try it out, almost to a man [u],NONE[/u] of them could play for toffee. With only one exception I can think of , with the best will in the world, they were all utterly useless players, and many of them were adding my bass to a sizable collection of similarly high-end instruments. They spend their time agonizing about technicalities and academic issues to do with construction because it is somewhere to direct their energies elsewhere than confronting their shortcomings as a player.
[/quote] I hate to think how I come across as a player! The few folk I've met off here have been pretty awesome players. One guy even got me to half my asking price without asking for a bass he wanted as he was so good and I would never make that bass sing like he did! I'm not great, I'm not awful either. I duuno if my basses count as high end either.

[Dingus]

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1397318678' post='2422787']
This makes funny and interesting reading. When you say novices how novice do you mean. Is it like the bloke/girl at the golf course with the latest and greatest in gadgets and golf clubs who nearly takes out the rear window of the secretary's Porsche at the first tee funny? If you have ever played golf you know this person. Or is it just that they have too much money and they think expensive basses will make them a better player?

Expensive basses maybe look nicer in some eyes because they cost more but if you aren't plucking and fretting right and haven't a clue about even tuning the instrument you are in bother before you start.
[/quote]

When I say novice I mean if you picked a stranger off the street who had never played a musical instrument before and asked them to have a go on your bass for a laugh , like that.

Some of them were good enough to be described as poor players, but I can only remember one chap ( who I sold my pre-EBMM Stingray to) who I could say was a ( very) good player , and much better than me at the time . The rest of them , I can honestly say, for the most part they were not competent enough to play the bassline to a simple song all the way through in a band, which is one of my general rules of thumb.

I think that such folks really[i] want[/i] to play the bass, but lack the patience and application to learn, and so buying gear is effectively the only way for them to participate in something that they are attracted to and maybe even fascinated by. I'm not being snooty about it or trying to be scathing of them, but it makes me sad because the most fun to be had with a bass is learning how to play it properly . It's a lot more rewarding to play well and have a less expensive bass than it is to have a great bass and struggle to find anything to do on it to amuse yourself.

I was useless when I first started playing, but I had lessons , practiced and stuck with it. Now after all that hard work, I am average to mediocre

Edited April 12, 2014 by Dingus

[Dingus]

Actually, I'm quite good but you can't really say that about yourself, can you?

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1397320878' post='2422814']
Actually, I'm quite good but you can't really say that about yourself, can you?
[/quote]
Well I think you can...because despite being humble would also say objectively that I am a very good player!

With that said I readily admit that I could be better, and to this end I am always extremely grateful to be offered feedback that will advance my ability and knowledge. There is however no shame in admitting that you are good at something.

Agree with your previous sentiment....most of the players that I have ever met who were obsessive about technicalities and owned a fleet of incredible high end basses were not very good.

[Guinness21]

I've only been playing for a couple of years now and already I'm sick of GAS! I've just bought a beautiful stingray 4hh with an ash body. Got it for a great price and it sounds f***ing awesome! Yet already I find myself looking at what bass I might get next.

[discreet]

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1397318678' post='2422787']
This makes funny and interesting reading. When you say novices how novice do you mean. Is it like the bloke/girl at the golf course with the latest and greatest in gadgets and golf clubs who nearly takes out the rear window of the secretary's Porsche at the first tee funny?
[/quote]

I see plenty of Porsche (and other prestige car) drivers on the road who surely can't have passed any sort of driving test.
Yet I, in my humble Polo, am the epitome of the careful, safe and considerate road user...

Edited April 12, 2014 by discreet

[Dingus]

Why not have an actual merry- go- round with bass guitars on it? Like a kind of jazz funk Magic Roundabout? You could get really dizzy, disorientated , feel generally weird and experience what it's like to be Bootsy Collins. It would be like astronauts undergoing training for G-force in a centrifuge , as you try to knock out the bassline to "Fire" by the Ohio Players while you spin round in a compromised state.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Dingus

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1397329416' post='2422933']
Why not have a merry- go- round with bass guitars on it? Like a kind of jazz funk Magic Roundabout?
[/quote]

OK - I'll be Zebedee.

[Dingus]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1397329476' post='2422934']
OK - I'll be Zebedee.
[/quote]

I always wanted to have a daughter so I could call her Ermintrude.

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1397329775' post='2422942']
I always wanted to have a daughter so I could call her Ermintrude.
[/quote]

Our guitarist's son is called Dylan. Ha, ha!

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='Guinness21' timestamp='1397328172' post='2422918']
I've only been playing for a couple of years now and already I'm sick of GAS! I've just bought a beautiful stingray 4hh with an ash body. Got it for a great price and it sounds f***ing awesome! Yet already I find myself looking at what bass I might get next.
[/quote]

D o n t.

Don't even go there. It's a slippery slope laced with silver tongued vendors who will ply you with various stuff to tantalise.

It's a stingray 4HH you've got.

You said it yourself, it's awesome......!

Edited April 12, 2014 by bassman344

[tauzero]

[quote name='Guinness21' timestamp='1397328172' post='2422918']
I've only been playing for a couple of years now and already I'm sick of GAS! I've just bought a beautiful stingray 4hh with an ash body. Got it for a great price and it sounds f***ing awesome! Yet already I find myself looking at what bass I might get next.
[/quote]

Be prepared to be told it should be a P.

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1397329065' post='2422925']


I see plenty of Porsche (and other prestige car) drivers on the road who surely can't have passed any sort of driving test.
Yet I, in my humble Polo, am the epitome of the careful, safe and considerate road user...
[/quote]

Still can't forget the spoiled muppet from school with the glitzy golf bag and the metal driver (before I even had a 2 wood) hacking at a ball from the first tee and bouncing it off the rear window of what I think was a 944 with a spectacular hook. He could not even spell golf never mind play golf but had all the gear. Is there a pattern here...?

I drive a polo too, carefully. If there's a German car in your rear view mirror which looks like it's in your back seat it's so close, it's likely a BMW.

Edited April 12, 2014 by bassman344

[discreet]

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1397343576' post='2423109']
If there's a German car in your rear view mirror which looks like it's in your back seat it's so close, it's likely a BMW.
[/quote]

Or an Audi...

[tom1946]

I do think that everyone rises to their own level of incompetence, and usually remains there....

I could be classed as a novice player, I play in a church band and have taught myself to play the basic notes and add runs here and there to make it flow better. Shocking really but it's all that's required. I'm 67 and have played 12 string guitar all my life which includes a pop group in the 60's. I now have arthritic fingers so the 12 string is hard to play.

I do buy a few high end basses as investments, better than putting money in low earning interest schemes anywhere else.

imo of course.

[GrammeFriday]

Sorry to disagree, but if the Basschat 'For Sale' forum is anything to go by, high-end basses are terrible financial investments. Recently there was a gorgeous MTD 635 up for sale on BC - must have cost well over £4,000 new, and couldn't have been more than a couple of years old. Seller was asking £2,900 for it. Look at ads for any other hi-end gear on BC - Fodera, Ken Smith, W&T, Roscoe, Laurus, etc etc - and you'll see it's the same story. It's also true of premium mass-produced stuff like US-made Fenders, Lakands etc. Modern basses depreciate like modern cars - they lose anything between a third and a half of their value the moment you drive them out of the showroom.

Personally I even doubt whether vintage basses make good investments nowadays. An original 62 Jazz bass in good condition would set you back somewhere between £10-15k at present, I think. How long would you have to hang on to it before it turned you a decent profit, let alone gave you a return worth pinning your retirement hopes on? I would also really like to know how much that vintage Jazz cost back in 1962, and what that original price would translate into in today's money. I have a sneaking feeling that basses cost more (as a proportion of the average persons pay packet) in 1962 than they do now. Which would mean that the real appreciated value of the bass between 1962 and 2014 is much less than it might seem on paper.

In short, I think basses are for playing, not investing in.

... Having said that, it might be a cunning way of getting your significant other to agree to you buying that MTD/vintage Jazz you've always wanted to own!

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1397379670' post='2423268']
Sorry to disagree, but if the Basschat 'For Sale' forum is anything to go by, high-end basses are terrible financial investments. Recently there was a gorgeous MTD 635 up for sale on BC - must have cost well over £4,000 new, and couldn't have been more than a couple of years old. Seller was asking £2,900 for it. Look at ads for any other hi-end gear on BC - Fodera, Ken Smith, W&T, Roscoe, Laurus, etc etc - and you'll see it's the same story. It's also true of premium mass-produced stuff like US-made Fenders, Lakands etc. Modern basses depreciate like modern cars - they lose anything between a third and a half of their value the moment you drive them out of the showroom.

Personally I even doubt whether vintage basses make good investments nowadays. An original 62 Jazz bass in good condition would set you back somewhere between £10-15k at present, I think. How long would you have to hang on to it before it turned you a decent profit, let alone gave you a return worth pinning your retirement hopes on? I would also really like to know how much that vintage Jazz cost back in 1962, and what that original price would translate into in today's money. I have a sneaking feeling that basses cost more (as a proportion of the average persons pay packet) in 1962 than they do now. Which would mean that the real appreciated value of the bass between 1962 and 2014 is much less than it might seem on paper.

In short, I think basses are for playing, not investing in.

... Having said that, it might be a cunning way of getting your significant other to agree to you buying that MTD/vintage Jazz you've always wanted to own!
[/quote]

Good points mate. The guitar investment market peaked around 2006-2007, vintage gear was on the up and up and within the years proceeding and there was certainly 'quick turn around' money to be made for only a few years wait. In 2004 I sold a blonde Stack Knob '61 Jazz Bass for £10,000 (in a shop i was in), 4 years later the same bass sold for £18,000.

So you're right, basses are no longer the investment they were for a period, and you're also right that new basses lose a lot of value the moment you buy them.

My answer, is that it's better to put your money into a second hand or vintage bass as you should always get back what you paid, and often a little bit more to go along with 'inflation' and the little rises in value that vintage gear will always have from time to time.

For example. on this forum I'm selling a 72 Jazz Bass for £2,000. An American Vintage 1974 version would cost just under £1900 brand new, but second hand would be worth far less if you came to sell it, but buy my '72 and chose to sell it later and you're going to do ok, your money is safe and better 'invested'

Edited April 13, 2014 by Chiliwailer

[GrammeFriday]

Thanks, Chiliwailer - sage advice from a man who clearly knows his stuff. (I've been amazed at some of the incredible vintage Fenders you've put up for sale over the last year or so!)

I think my real issue is with the concept of vintage basses as 'investments', especially nowadays, as you say. Clearly they can and do appreciate in value over time, but appreciation is not really the same thing as investment value. There is a big difference between a bass holding its value and a bass actually making you money. If I had some serious money and wanted to invest it - i.e. get a regular capital return on it - I would be opening up a managed fund or taking out a buy-to-let mortgage, not buying a vintage Fender!

Edited April 13, 2014 by GrammeFriday

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1397404790' post='2423576']
Thanks, Chiliwailer - sage advice from a man who clearly knows his stuff. (I've been amazed at some of the incredible vintage Fenders you've put up for sale over the last year or so!)

[/quote]

Cheers Pal, going back to the original purpose of this topic, I've been buying and selling a lot more frequently this last year as I'm rebuilding a collection, and clearing some debts, after a recent property purchase. I like to buy a bass, play it for a while and then see if it sticks, then i know it's a keeper.

Looks like I'm getting settled on my keepers, so I'll only be buying ones that make me curious, purely for fun's sake!

Edited April 13, 2014 by Chiliwailer

[tom1946]

I take the points made, I didn't express myself too well.
I haven't paid more than £800 for anything but I'm careful what I buy and touch wood I can only gain on what I do have.