Doing PA and playing on the same gig.....?

[Ashwood1985]

Ok so here's one for you.....

Who here sets up and runs a PA system on function based gigs in particular (the reasons including the fact that there's a client being charged for both jobs normally! Plus the question wouldn't apply to crew situations as much)...? and who consistently insists on there being a dedicated engineer on each paid function?

I know some players (bass or otherwise) who do exactly this and I have alway avoided it as professional principle. But I am starting to think that the only person who really gives a rat's arse is yours truly.

Also any good/bad experiences regarding this?

A note from me: a function singer I know said that the bass player was doing this on a gig and he just stopped playing in the middle of a chorus, put down his bass and wondered over to the desk to make some adjustments - all with the panic and urgency of a sleepy old dad, begrudgingly making himself a cup of tea! Hilarious story but I wouldn't find it so funny if I was the one dealing with that client!

look forward to hearing your thoughts/approach/experiences

[goblin]

A lot of the time I do sound and playing at the same time, as it's usually my PA which is in use.

The key to doing it successfully is to have the desk in close range. It can be a bit tricky as I run a 20 channel desk, so finding somewhere for it can be tricky. For sound check, I always set levels quite loud, and then bring them down a bit for the gig itself. It means I've got headroom on the desk if anything needs to be raised, and there's a lot less of a worry about feedback.

So far so good, whilst playing I've never had any issues. Only things like the singer asking for more of her in the monitors, which is fine, one knob does that. Spend a good amount of time studying the desk, learn it's controls inside out. It makes it a lot easier, as you spend less time panicking and staring at it, looking for something like a mid pot.

[goblin]

Oh and the downfall? My load is incredibly large, I get assistance loading and unloading at gigs, but at home it's not so much fun!

[Ashwood1985]

Yeah I'm more than familiar with the joys and perils of engineering - it's my bread and butter and I've been a pro in sound longer than I've considered myself remotely pro at playing. I think it's a different way of looking at the role of live engineering - when I'm on the desk I am constantly mixing and adjusting to the varying intricacies of the song and performance - and if I was playing it would have to become a 'set and forget' situation to a certain degree - despite the fact that most 'engineers' I see in the function field work this way anyway, it rubs against my respect for the craft. But you know - as someone who owns quality PA and can play its a hard stance to maintain when there's extra moolah to be made!

Edited March 11, 2014 by Ashwood1985

[SpaceChick]

Our keyboard player does our mainly, and runs the lighting desk!! The man is a machine! He just has them elevated around him like they were additional keyboards!!

I stand next to him, as there are a few songs where I am better placed to press buttons, so I do

We've managed to make it work.

As for transporting, I'm the poor sod with the van However, everyone chips in with loading and unloading.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='goblin' timestamp='1394506870' post='2392078']
My load is incredibly large,
[/quote]

[JTUK]

Since the sound of the band is in evceryone's interest, then every one chips in to make the
job easier. The load in and set up means cable runs are first and that dictates where everyone plays.
The Gtr runs the board but once we have EQ...we don't need to do too much, since we can't really anyway
so it is all about levels. The Vox are always set high against the band and we try and sit on the levels.
We only really get into blowing the mix territory at the end of the show, tbh..if that.

We quote for P.A at every gig and pay for it..( along with lights and Admin )
If the budget allows, we quote seperately for egnrs for sound and light and then they bring their
kit. We have a few companies that we will work with, and a few we wont ask back.
Our P.A is pretty good so we would rather haul that than quite a few small engr ones, tbh
We have found it only really worth hiring...generally..if the kit is on the EAW, Martin type standard.
Some HK kit is ok if they have more cabs.

[icastle]

[quote name='goblin' timestamp='1394506870' post='2392078']
Oh and the downfall? My load is incredibly large, I get assistance loading and unloading at gigs, but at home it's not so much fun!
[/quote]

Are you sure you just posted that to the right site?

[icastle]

Pub gigs we have the desk next to us but for functions we always have it a distance away with a dedicated sound engineer.

[discreet]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1394531605' post='2392206']
Pub gigs we have the desk next to us but for functions we always have it a distance away with a dedicated sound engineer.
[/quote]

This. Functions generally pay a lot more so you can afford an engineer. And an octopus wrangler.

[lojo]

Ive done the pa in some hall charity gigs and corporate events when also playing, its a bloody nightmare.

However ..

Recently did a hall charity gig and insisted someone else do the PA, a firm where paid £450 to supply and run a rig, and it was a bloody nightmare.

So no don't do it, but if your in charge of who is hired to do it, make sure they know what they are doing.

[leftybassman392]

Yep, been there, done that. Good fun (I've always liked twiddling knobs ). Downside is that it normally has to be a bit of S&F type of thing. In the function band we paid a monkey to do the twiddling.

Edited March 11, 2014 by leftybassman392

[dand666]

We just do it ourselves. We only do functions, but have no engineer. Means more money for us..

[The Dark Lord]

There are a couple of bands I know locally where they bring a dedicated sound man. He usually gets an equal split with the rest of the band ....... and, to be honest, I'm not sure their sound set up is any the better for it.

It's a pain. There are three of us. The drummer only does his own kit - which seems to take a long time to assemble. Me and the guitarist do the PA and the lighting rig. We take turns about on each one - but our PA uses on iPad as the mixer with lot's of presets and memories, so if we do the same place twice, we can recall the setting.

I think it's quite common for pub bands to do all of their own stuff. It's the slog part of the job.

[TimR]

Should be fine. Get a long lead or go wireless so you can move around the dance floor while playing to check the sound out front.

One problem is as the room fills you change the acoustics quite dramatically.

Depends also on what the band are expecting regards fold back. Spend a long time in the studio with your gear and the band until they're happy, that's better than spending ages at a gig. It won't be perfect but it'll give you a good starting point for mic levels and basic fold back eq.

Feedback destroyer will help a bit and reduce the moments when you have to stop playing and yank the master faders back.

Get singers trained with microphone technique if they're not already. That'll help a massive amount.

Then set it and forget it.

[goblin]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1394531490' post='2392202']
Are you sure you just posted that to the right site?
[/quote]

You mean this isn't.... ohhh sh*t, I thought I was on ass chat!

[gelfin]

I run the PA at gigs because no one else knows how to work it. And its mine.
We always have some followers who act as roadies and I am teaching one who is keen to run the desk.
I use wireless for my bass and stand away using a headset mic to tell him what to adjust

If it's a function guitarist does the disco and lights.

So that just leaves the drummer!!!

[Ashwood1985]

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1394579344' post='2393061']
using a headset mic to tell him what to adjust
[/quote]

NICE

[Ashwood1985]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1394576274' post='2393017']
There are a couple of bands I know locally where they bring a dedicated sound man. He usually gets an equal split with the rest of the band ....... and, to be honest, I'm not sure their sound set up is any the better for it.
[/quote]

Unfortunately this is a problem for professional engineers where there are so many, frankly speaking, laymen 'engineers' on the circuit that it gives the trade a bad name and devalues the importance of it in the minds of musicians. Week in week out, I do the sound for function bands (as a dedicated engineer) and most of the time I am working with a band for the first time they act like I've performed magic because they are used to the results from non-pros.

[gapiro]

Depends. I try and argue for soundman every gig we do as I know what a massive difference it makes - I used to run sound for a function band, and you do need constant supervision and adjustments on the gear.

Not much help, I dont get my way a lot of the smaller gigs .

[mrtcat]

Mixer lives next to my amp at gigs. Singer and guitarist always help with load in and set up. I sound check with wireless lead and then away we go. We aren't a hugely expensive function band but we try to get the very best sound we can. Our system can go very big if needed. Tempted to invest in snake and use engineer for bigger gigs in future but would need to find someone I really trust.