BobVbass Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So... I'm quiet happy not having frets - I play double bass so I don't have an issue but fretless basses seem to have lines where the frets are normally on fretted bass guitar and markers in the normal fretted place (if that makes sense) -Doesn't that mean if you play with your fingering in normal fretted place that your intonation will be miles out? Surely the correct place for your finger would be on the fretline? So what's the point of the marker in that position? Why have the lines and markers on the fretboard anyway? I'm sure there's a very good reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You put your fingers dead on the lines, the side dot markers are there to remind you which 'fret' position is which (just as with a fretted instrument). On an unlined fretless the side dot markers are right where the frets would lie as you clearly have no other point of reference (other than your ear). There are those who have a problem with lined boards (imagining it's a 'cheat' perhaps?) - I don't have a problem with lined fretless basses though mine is unlined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) If what you mean is why have the side dots on a lined fretless in the same position as a fretted bass, i.e in the middle of the fret , then the answer is to make the experience of playing a lined fretless as akin as possible to playing a fretted bass . On my fretless the fret lines have been specially done with some acrylic and can be seen clearly quite deep at the side of the fingerboard. If the side dots were also above their respective fret lines then I think that would make looking at the neck a lot more alien and be disconcerting, given that I am far more used to playing a fretted bass. Edited February 12, 2014 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1392228352' post='2366240'] ... Doesn't that mean if you play with your fingering in normal fretted place that your intonation will be miles out?... [/quote] I prefer no lines myself but I'd say you should be putting your finger right up to and on the fret even when there are frets. Are you putting your fingers somewhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote]I prefer no lines myself but I'd say you should be putting your finger right up to and on the fret even when there are frets. Are you putting your fingers somewhere else? [/quote] Well when there are frets you can put your finger anywhere in the gap preceding the correct fret and still get the correct intonation - kind of the idea of them I would have thought otherwise it would be called a vaguely precise bass instead of a precision wouldn't it No lines makes far more sense to me to be honest but I guess it's horses for courses, if you're more comfortable looking and seeing markers there then fair enough - just seemed very weird to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You're over-thinking it. Once you pick up a fretless bass and listen while you are playing it's obvious where your fingers go. I have lined fretless basses with the markers on the lines and the markers between the lines as on fretted bass. I don't have any problem switching between the two because the lines are only ever a rough guide as to where to put my fingers. The only time for me that the placement of the side markers is important, is on an un-lined fretless when they must be where the "frets" would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1392238346' post='2366422'] Well when there are frets you can put your finger anywhere in the gap preceding the correct fret and still get the correct intonation ... [/quote] That seems to me an extremely odd approach the placement of the fingers but each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) [quote]You're over-thinking it. Once you pick up a fretless bass and listen while you are playing it's obvious where your fingers go. I have lined fretless basses with the markers on the lines and the markers between the lines as on fretted bass. I don't have any problem switching between the two because the lines are only ever a rough guide as to where to put my fingers. The only time for me that the placement of the side markers is important, is on an un-lined fretless when they must be where the "frets" would be. [/quote] Yeah fair enough - I've only ever played unlined so probably wouldn't make a hell of a difference I 'spose Edited February 12, 2014 by BobVbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 [Quote]That seems to me an extremely odd approach the placement of the fingers but each to their own. [/quote] In what way? That's how frets work - so long as you produce the correct pressure to create a brake angle over the fret then the note will sound at the correct intonation, yes nearer the fret will create a steeper break angle but at the end of the day any break angle will produce the required note... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1392239760' post='2366435'] In what way? That's how frets work - so long as you produce the correct pressure to create a brake angle over the fret then the note will sound at the correct intonation, yes nearer the fret will create a steeper break angle but at the end of the day any break angle will produce the required note... [/quote] Well, I wouldn't be looking for a break angle at all; I'd be trying to minimise it. I'm trying to contact the string with the fret firmly and cleanly without pressing the string into the fingerboard and so possibly sharpening the note. And the closer to the fret the lighter the touch needed to fret the string. The relevance for playing fretless is that if I always play close up to or even on the fret then my muscle memory, at least on a bass of the same scale length, will put me very close to correct intonation. Your experience may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote]Well, I wouldn't be looking for a break angle at all; I'd be trying to minimise it. I'm trying to contact the string with the fret firmly and cleanly without pressing the string into the fingerboard and so possibly sharpening the note. And the closer to the fret the lighter the touch needed to fret the string. The relevance for playing fretless is that if I always play close up to or even on the fret then my muscle memory, at least on a bass of the same scale length, will put me very close to correct intonation.[/quote] Well you know, I've yet to have a disagreement in all the years I've been on here and I'm not going to start now; not quite sure what point you're trying to make but thanks for the opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1392240932' post='2366452'] Well you know, I've yet to have a disagreement in all the years I've been on here and I'm not going to start now; not quite sure what point you're trying to make but thanks for the opinion [/quote] I thought I was responding to your OP and having a conversation but never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1392232421' post='2366302'] Are you putting your fingers somewhere else? [/quote] And have you got the pictures to prove it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I was taught to fret a fretted bass as close to the fret as possible. On a lined fretless definitely on the line. Having just started on fretless, I'm surprised how easily I've adapted to it, and how good my hearing actually is, I know if the note is even only slightly out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I learned to play fretless on a beautiful Westone Thunder III Mk2 which was totally unlined and had the side markers where the appropriate frets would be. I played many gigs with this strung both EADG and BEAD, Later I had a Yamaha TRB1005 Fretless which was both 35" scale and lined, with dots between fretmarkers, as mentioned above. I found both the lines *and* the scale offputting. The extra inch(!) may not seem much, but I found it was just enough to make me have to concentrate on the intonation over the music, and I also found the placement of the side dots a distraction. All this contrived to convince me to part with what was otherwise a wonderful instrument. I believe the current owner is very happy with it. I may also say that the Westone Thunder III was also a magnificent bass, being a one-piece body and with a beautiful ebony fingerboard - don't confuse these with Thunder 1's, they are a quantum leap in quality. The electrics were amazing too, with a single active tone knob and a passive treble cut. It also had a series/parallel switch and was active/passive. Certainly one of the best basses I ever laid hands on. If it had been a 5 string, I'd never have parted with it. I now have a wonderful (but inexpensive) 34" scale Yamaha BBGN modded with Yammy RBX375 humbucking double pole pickups and The Bass Doc stripped off the fretboard and replaced it with a magnificent unmarked ebony fingerboard with the side dots in the 'correct' positions. A truly beautiful job and a lovely instrument for me to play. Thanks Howard. Being the scale that suits my muscle memory, and having the side dots where I prefer them, I find I am very comfortable playing this bass. G. Edited February 13, 2014 by geoffbyrne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1392232421' post='2366302'] I prefer no lines myself but I'd say you should be putting your finger right up to and on the fret even when there are frets. Are you putting your fingers somewhere else? [/quote] Taking things to extremes, if you put your finger right up to where the fret is, then why play fretted at all? Surely the frets are there, as the other person says, to do the "precision" bit, allowing you the player (well, certainly me) to worry less about the intonation and just hit the gap between frets as I play up and down the neck, at varying speeds and varying levels of difficulty. Close to the fret is clearly good practice and good sense, but the whole point of frets is that they do the micro-accuracy work for you, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It's more what the whole point 'was' as Leo produced the Precision as an alternative to the Double Bass. Fretting too far back from the fret can result in fret buzz; it's a way of playing annexed from playing treble as far as I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't look at the lines anyway. I use the neck side dots if I need to reference a neck location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Having never actually played a lined fretless, can you actually see the lines ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1392308085' post='2367112'] Having never actually played a lined fretless, can you actually see the lines ? [/quote] Yep! The lines a there. My Am. Std. Fretless Jazz. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vKMuJbL.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1392308085' post='2367112'] Having never actually played a lined fretless, can you actually see the lines ? [/quote] Depends on the lines. On my Overwater they are all but invisible under typical stage lighting. On the Pedulla Buzz they almost glow in the dark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1392309798' post='2367152'] Depends on the lines. On my Overwater they are all but invisible under typical stage lighting. On the Pedulla Buzz they almost glow in the dark! [/quote] I couldn't say, about my Fender. I only use it in the studios, have never played it with stage lighting. Now you have me wondering about it. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/z5NL51m.gif[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1392288587' post='2366755'] I was taught to fret a fretted bass as close to the fret as possible...[/quote] I thought that was standard too but clearly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1392292639' post='2366807'] Taking things to extremes, if you put your finger right up to where the fret is, then why play fretted at all? [/quote] Well, why not play fretted? But if you need a specific reason then it sounds different to fretless. [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1392292639' post='2366807'] ... Close to the fret is clearly good practice and good sense ... [/quote] That's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is the neck of my fretless bass. It works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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