BetaFunk Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I had a 1983 Guild Pilot bass for sale and couldn't shift it on BC for a third of the price you'd pay for a Fender of the same year. For a made in the U.S. bass it was a bargain, played superbly, sounds great and as well made as any Fender or Gibson of the same period. The reason it didn't sell? Fashion, At the moment these aren't fashionable. We live in very conservative times where most people want to conform and don't want to be the odd one out and as far as basses are concerned the Fender blinkers are firmly in place. I rather like a Fenders by the way but do appreciate there other basses out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1389206536' post='2331395'] I had a 1983 Guild Pilot bass for sale and couldn't shift it on BC for a third of the price you'd pay for a Fender of the same year. For a made in the U.S. bass it was a bargain, played superbly, sounds great and as well made as any Fender or Gibson of the same period. The reason it didn't sell? Fashion, At the moment these aren't fashionable. We live in very conservative times where most people want to conform and don't want to be the odd one out and as far as basses are concerned the Fender blinkers are firmly in place. I rather like a Fenders by the way but do appreciate there other basses out there. [/quote] I agree Fender has become a safe choice, but how much is fashion and how much some poor design choices by other manufacturers? To me most Guild solid bodies look plain ugly. The Pilot isn't the worst, but I still don't find it particularly attractive compared to Fenders and even some other Fender-inspired designs like Lakland. The Guild bass that does still attract serious money is the StarFire, which is a classic, timeless hollow-body. The upside is, if you don't mind the shape, you get a classic bass for much less than it's quality deserves, though that's no consolation if you own one from new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1389185110' post='2330989'] True - but why are so many for sale? [/quote] I believe this is because so many are bought online and not every bass suits every player. Even Fender can't promise that. Plus half of the Fenders I've bought turned out to be fakes with Fender logos, and so round they go again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Rotten Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1389169528' post='2330744'] IMHO there seems to be a widespread religious-cult style patriotism love out there for Fenders. It's a following that I would otherwise only expect to see for following of a sports team. [/quote] Or Apple? They seem to have enough fanboys. Ohhh hang on...'iFender'!? *Runs off to patent office* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) [quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1389228373' post='2331769'] I agree Fender has become a safe choice, but how much is fashion and how much some poor design choices by other manufacturers? To me most Guild solid bodies look plain ugly. The Pilot isn't the worst, but I still don't find it particularly attractive compared to Fenders and even some other Fender-inspired designs like Lakland. The Guild bass that does still attract serious money is the StarFire, which is a classic, timeless hollow-body. The upside is, if you don't mind the shape, you get a classic bass for much less than it's quality deserves, though that's no consolation if you own one from new. [/quote] Yes, and i still think a lot of it is to do with fashion. As i said we live in very conservative times. Very few people want to be different. In music nearly every popular artist plays it safe nowadays so what has become a traditional rock instrument fits in perfectly. People also now buy with a view that they will be selling on in the future so want something that will not lose money and hopefully actually make money. This wasn't the case in the 60s and 70s where the Fender Jazz Bass you bought new in the mid 60s would (after a few knocks and dings from gigging) be worth about half that when you part exchanged it for a new one (everyone wanted brand new shiny basses then) in the 70s. What is Road Worn today meant tatty unloved and unwanted then. Edited January 9, 2014 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I have to say I was very tempted by your Schecter but went for a "safer" Yamaha instead; only because I know Yamaha's do solid great value basses - Schecter used to be superb in the 80's but now I've no idea what they're like or sound like now - I like the look of it though Edited January 9, 2014 by BobVbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Schecter are great. Just not recognized over here for some reason. Recession obviously has something to do with it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Schecter are great. Just not recognized over here for some reason. Recession obviously has something to do with it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 According to Boy George and Call Me Dave we will be feeling the pain for at least 5 more years, so that may well have an effect on prices too. On a more chearful note, we shouldn't worry as "we're all in this together", us and all the other Eton educated, multi-millionaires that make up our nation's glorious leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1389260757' post='2331937'] Yes, and i still think a lot of it is to do with fashion. As i said we live in very conservative times. Very few people want to be different. In music nearly every popular artist plays it safe nowadays so what has become a traditional rock instrument fits in perfectly. People also now buy with a view that they will be selling on in the future so want something that will not lose money and hopefully actually make money. This wasn't the case in the 60s and 70s where the Fender Jazz Bass you bought new in the mid 60s would (after a few knocks and dings from gigging) be worth about half that when you part exchanged it for a new one (everyone wanted brand new shiny basses then) in the 70s. What is Road Worn today meant tatty unloved and unwanted then. [/quote] Has this really changed? Other than pre 1970/80s instruments find me a bass that's selling for more now 2nd hand than you'd pay for a new one? Ok, maybe there's a few "exclusive" or limited edition exceptions, but not for a run of the mill bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrikmarky Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1389265804' post='2332007'] I have to say I was very tempted by your Schecter but went for a "safer" Yamaha instead; only because I know Yamaha's do solid great value basses - Schecter used to be superb in the 80's but now I've no idea what they're like or sound like now - I like the look of it though [/quote] exactly why mines 4th in the queue as I've just bought a great Yamaha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliusmonk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Just for fun a few weeks ago I picked an arbitrary moment in time and counted the ads by brand in the first few pages of the For Sale section (you could tell I was bored) - these were the approx results: Fender /Squier 50 MM 22 Warwick 12 Ibanez 9 Lakland 7 Gibson/Epiphone 5 Westone 5 Spector 4 Aria 4 Esp 3 Fodera 3 Tanglewood 3 Yamaha 3 W&T 3 Sandberg 2 Ken smith 2 Farida 2 Overwater 2 G&L 2 Washburn 2 Tokai 2 Clover 2 Alleva coppolo 2 (Didn't count single ocurrences of any brand) Whether this kind of thing (with repeated measurements over time) may reflect only actual market shares or not, I don't know... But yes, Fender is overwhelmming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1389275631' post='2332205'] Other than pre 1970/80s instruments find me a bass that's selling for more now 2nd hand than you'd pay for a new one? [/quote] Read what i said again. A lot of people buy now hoping not to lose money and yes that's different from the 80s for example. Remember all those pointy guitars and basses? You just bought them with no thought as to how much they would be worth when it came to part exchanging them. We live in much less adventurous and much more cautious times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1389274027' post='2332179'] Schecter are great. Just not recognized over here for some reason. Recession obviously has something to do with it . [/quote] ....and fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) [quote name='ead' timestamp='1389274663' post='2332184'] According to Boy George and Call Me Dave we will be feeling the pain for at least 5 more years, so that may well have an effect on prices too. On a more chearful note, we shouldn't worry as "we're all in this together", us and all the other Eton educated, multi-millionaires that make up our nation's glorious leadership. [/quote] It makes me proud to be British to have these two stooges bailing us out of the **** that them and their mates got us into in the first place. A right pair of 22 carat ones. Edited January 9, 2014 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1389274021' post='2332178'] Schecter are great. Just not recognized over here for some reason. Recession obviously has something to do with it . [/quote] Schecter though I think in the UK have almost zero desirability, in my mind I associate them with american metal bands I've never heard of, they also were THE brand that you could get for next to nothing in Soundcontrol (remember them?) and would always be in the sale. I have no idea about their marketing but virtually every other maker I could tell you something about their back story - not schecter - If I had to guess I would think they were a poor mans korean version of ESP or something.... hang on google it... googled.... well the logo is set in black letter... there's a way of limiting your appeal! oh according to Wikipedia I'm half right, started as a spare parts and upgrade company, then moved to making high end stuff then mass production, owned by the same person as ESP and now made in korea... scarily good guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='patrikmarky' timestamp='1389119961' post='2330299'] My schecter is so beutiful ..great sound... Have he no interest at all..is it me or is there no love for anything that's not fender ... [/quote] SOMETIMES I WORRY IT'S ALL A WASTE OF TIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1389301026' post='2332679'] Schecter though I think in the UK have almost zero desirability, in my mind I associate them with american metal bands I've never heard of, they also were THE brand that you could get for next to nothing in Soundcontrol (remember them?) and would always be in the sale. I have no idea about their marketing but virtually every other maker I could tell you something about their back story - not schecter - If I had to guess I would think they were a poor mans korean version of ESP or something.... hang on google it... googled.... well the logo is set in black letter... there's a way of limiting your appeal! oh according to Wikipedia I'm half right, started as a spare parts and upgrade company, then moved to making high end stuff then mass production, owned by the same person as ESP and now made in korea... scarily good guess.... [/quote] True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrikmarky Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Gigs this bass last night...decided to keep...think this is a very understated bass...it may be a bit to "metal" for some folks...I've had most basses from stingrays ,Warwicks,spectors,shuker,sandberg,mayones and more..and this competes well..maybe I need to join a metal band... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinball Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) [quote name='patrikmarky' timestamp='1389466586' post='2334495'] Gigs this bass last night...decided to keep...think this is a very understated bass...it may be a bit to "metal" for some folks...I've had most basses from stingrays ,Warwicks,spectors,shuker,sandberg,mayones and more..and this competes well..maybe I need to join a metal band... [/quote] A good move I think. They are great basses and are not just for metal or ready rock. I'm love Schecters and have had a number of leads and a Stiletto Custom bass. I currently have a Ultra custom lead guitar. The materials, parts and build quality are good across their whole range-unlike a number of similar brands. They are marketed and the young metal market, which has proved very successful as they shift a lot of units. This is reinforced by the fact that most models are 35 inch scale and armed with EMG's. My experience is that they don't produce rubbish and that their production standards are consistently high, subject to the price of the instrument of course. Edited January 11, 2014 by Pinball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1389171081' post='2330755'] Not sure about this. Yes, there are a few dyed-in-the-wool Fender fans, but I think that for most people a Fender is a known quantity. They know what to expect from the sound, look and playability (or at least they [i]think[/i] they do!). In tough times when money is short, maybe buyers are less likely to take a punt on a lesser-known instrument? That said, there do seem to be an inordinate number of Fenders in the basses for sale section... [/quote] I think you're totally right. If someone turns up for a gig or a session and they're carrying a P bass or a Strat, then the MD/band/producer knows what to expect. If you're looking for a certain type of gig, then you kind of know what instrument you'll need, or will be better suited to it, 9 times out of 10 some sort of Fender will do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='juliusmonk' timestamp='1389292871' post='2332531'] Just for fun a few weeks ago I picked an arbitrary moment in time and counted the ads by brand in the first few pages of the For Sale section (you could tell I was bored) - these were the approx results: Fender /Squier 50 MM 22 Warwick 12 Ibanez 9 Lakland 7 Gibson/Epiphone 5 Westone 5 Spector 4 Aria 4 Esp 3 Fodera 3 Tanglewood 3 Yamaha 3 W&T 3 Sandberg 2 Ken smith 2 Farida 2 Overwater 2 G&L 2 Washburn 2 Tokai 2 Clover 2 Alleva coppolo 2 (Didn't count single ocurrences of any brand) Whether this kind of thing (with repeated measurements over time) may reflect only actual market shares or not, I don't know... But yes, Fender is overwhelmming... [/quote] Thanks for that, really interesting. Fenders are even more ubiquitous than I thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chambo Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 There's so much stuff out there at the moment, second hand values just seem to be getting lower. I was looking at guitars in the US and they also seem to have taken a dive. Saying that, the luthier built stuff seems to be keeping it's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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