Barefaced cabs

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1387060485' post='2307938']
Not sure about that.... Anything high up the fretboard gets lost...like slides and trills
so you need a cab with more than 2k
[/quote]

Modern high end drivers like the kappalite series go up to 5k ish (even on the 15 inch variant).

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1387060485' post='2307938']
....Anything high up the fretboard gets lost....
[/quote]

Where???

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1387060485' post='2307938']
Not sure about that.... Anything high up the fretboard gets lost...like slides and trills
[/quote]

Garbage!

IMO of course! And if that were the case, I think you'd need to look at your EQ settings... even with a J bass and Hartke LH500 (both known to be rather shy of mids) I have no problem whatsoever with hearing myself through my Compact - anywhere on the fretboard. However, when I tried a Genz Benz NX2-212T... mids all gone and poor audibility.

Horses for courses, naturally - but to say any BF cab causes lost signal is just wrong (IME).

Edited December 15, 2013 by Conan

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1386680022' post='2302960']
The used Compacts about do look like great value, but do they give enough definition and top end response, or are they inherently quite bassy and "dubby"?
[/quote]

IiRC the frequency cut off is 1khz and it's a very steep roll off too.
The new super compact cut off is 3khz which is brilliant for me.

But as I said in a pm to you, there was always something not quiet right with the older compacts, not sure what it ever was
Where as the super compact has been the most pleasurable experience for me.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1387060485' post='2307938']


Not sure about that.... Anything high up the fretboard gets lost...like slides and trills
so you need a cab with more than 2k
[/quote]

That's just hilarious.

That's like saying if a cab doesn't go lower that 40hz you can't hear a low E.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1387068961' post='2308004']
Where???
[/quote]

Not in your pocket Chris, but I like a few trilly bits...

Edited December 15, 2013 by JTUK

[JTUK]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1387094946' post='2308073']
That's just hilarious.

That's like saying if a cab doesn't go lower that 40hz you can't hear a low E.
[/quote]


Go and read that book again... you'll find all you need to 'know' about bass and then write it up here.
Some people might even swallow it.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1387092579' post='2308060']
Garbage!

IMO of course! And if that were the case, I think you'd need to look at your EQ settings... even with a J bass and Hartke LH500 (both known to be rather shy of mids) I have no problem whatsoever with hearing myself through my Compact - anywhere on the fretboard. However, when I tried a Genz Benz NX2-212T... mids all gone and poor audibility.

Horses for courses, naturally - but to say any BF cab causes lost signal is just wrong (IME).
[/quote]

I'll run and DB750 through DB 10 and 12's and also through Berg Neos 12's. all with tweeters. You need yo be careful
of running the tweeters too high as they can get harsh. I don't think the horn units as fitted are that great, tbh and a higher midrange unit
sounds a stronger solution.... which is why TKS and Baer are interesting.
I use the figure of 2kh as that is typically useable....so quoted specs will/maybe be higher but you need to hear that in context.
If someone tunes a cab to be low... that will cost you elsewhere, so, IMO..paper specs become meaningless.

Cab makers know this which is why they use cheap horns..in the most part..again, IMO.

I have enough highs and presense on an active bass and I really don't need to have to confuse or fight that with the amp as well. EQ should therefore
be used minimally and to enhance. If you need to correct it to any degree, you can have too much colour and too many variables elsewhere.
You then chasing a sound..and you can be lucky in one room and hopelessly lost in another.

For me...because I am very happy with my basses sound...both prety different inn their own way, but their character comes thru straight away.
All I need to do is set levels..and we are off.
The band mix is sorted ..IMO.. and it is levels only. We are known for a good sound, if I say so myself.

All In need a cab to do is reproduce a faithful sound.. I don't say it is pure or flat, but I am up and running in 2 mins.
I never need to twiddle knows.. the sound is there.

My style may be too fancy/busy/OTT/crap for some... you will hear a note not a thunk or clunck...and I need it get through a loud band situation.

So, no I don't need to EQ'ing.... I need cabs that can cut it... and 15's never have for me...I might find the botton end of it ok... and pleasing but everywhere else in the range is too much a compromise.
This can be the case with a bassy 410 as well....but you'd get a horn to cover... or hope it would.

My fave goto cab atm is a 212 with horn... over 2x210.
the 2x112 are only used for their easy carry into some gigs. They will be sold at some point.

If this is picky, ( and in this regard, I really am ) then so be it... but I know what I want and how to get it

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1387094690' post='2308071']
IiRC the frequency cut off is 1khz and it's a very steep roll off too.
[/quote]

This is the response graph of the driver used in G1/2 compacts ...

[attachment=150487:Screenshot 2013-12-15 10.28.50.png]

As you can see the HF dropoff is mostly in the 4-5k region.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1386779989' post='2304445']
Nah, I don't believe you....
[/quote]

Well a bit of googling has yelded the following ...

The drivers used in my peavey cabs were:
Black widow 1502DT with a Vd of 225cc
4 * Sheffield tvx with a combined Vd of 336cc
Grand total Vd = 561cc

vs

kappalite 3015 with a Vd of 505cc

So technically the Compact moves almost exactly 90% of the "air" of my previous stack which is pretty good for something that is 1/5 the size and weight.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1387092579' post='2308060']
Horses for courses, naturally - but to say any BF cab causes lost signal is just wrong (IME).
[/quote]
I do not by any means have masses of high end treble, and some of my basses are strung with flats, but when I used a Stingray, I want to HEAR that treble snap more often that I realise. A Ray with flats sounds great, and a Ray with new nickel rounds also sound great, but if you have the new nickel rounds, and you want that Stingray bite and cut, it isn't as audible without a little tweeter. It sounds darker.

I can prove this with my current Orange 1x15, the test I did with a Compact Gen 1, and the cabs I have here that do have decent horns.

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387131549' post='2308509']
I can prove this with my current Orange 1x15, the test I did with a Compact Gen 1, and the cabs I have here that do have decent horns.
[/quote]

"[i]Prove[/i]" what? You're talking about personal preferences there. How can they ever be "proved" other than to yourself?

Edited December 16, 2013 by Conan

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387131549' post='2308509']
I do not by any means have masses of high end treble, and some of my basses are strung with flats, but when I used a Stingray, I want to HEAR that treble snap more often that I realise. A Ray with flats sounds great, and a Ray with new nickel rounds also sound great, but if you have the new nickel rounds, and you want that Stingray bite and cut, it isn't as audible without a little tweeter. It sounds darker.

I can prove this with my current Orange 1x15, the test I did with a Compact Gen 1, and the cabs I have here that do have decent horns.
[/quote]

I dont think anyone is really contesting the idea that a cab without a horn/tweeter is going to have less top end that one that does.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1387184240' post='2308987']
"[i]Prove[/i]" what? You're talking about personal preferences there. How can they ever be "proved" other than to yourself?
[/quote]

I don't think you need proof, because its pretty usual for a cab without a mid or a HF unit to not be able to bring out the treble snap and nuances that SOME players really like. Even some of the 12/6 designs still don't extend far enough for some. I think the appropriate description is 'dark'.

I personally like having the choice, so roll off or on, with variables inbetween.

[alexclaber]

The old Compact's 15" runs to about 4kHz on-axis but that's pretty irrelevant unless you, your band, and the audience all stick their ears in the direct line of fire - which is impossible! Once you move off-axis it rolls off much lower and therefore doesn't work that great for a lot of players. If it works for you then that's excellent but it's not bright enough for everyone. The 15" in the Orange cab isn't as clean (being a ferrite magnet and different cone/suspension and voice coil), so it synthesises extra brightness and has a really strong sharp treble peak from the dustcap - but you'd need almost two of them to produce as much bottom at full tilt.

Our new 12" runs to about the same point as the Compact's 15" on-axis but sounds far brighter in the real world because it disperses that treble around the room. This is not because it's a 12" rather than a 15" (though that helps a bit) but because the non-pistonic behaviour hugely improves the dispersion.

Anyone claiming that a driver of a certain diameter will only work to a certain frequency because of its size limiting dispersion doesn't know what they're talking about because no musical instrument loudspeakers manage to behave pistonically beyond a few hundred Hz at best. I see people insisting that a woofer of diameter X must be crossed to a midrange driver at frequency Y and just roll my eyes at the massive oversimplification of the problem and the lack of understanding of non-linear behaviour from some self-appointed experts...

I can totally see why Musicman20 didn't like the sound of the Compact! I know our Compact owners mean well but sometimes reading these well-meaning posts is a little like reading someone insisting that a Bedford Rascal is ideal for removal men in a van forum because a whole load of florists love them... Horses for courses! Nothing is perfect and engineering is all about getting the least bad combination of compromises for a specific goal.

[charic]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1387196325' post='2309162']
a Bedford Rascal is ideal for removal men in a van forum because a whole load of florists love them... Horses for courses!
[/quote]

You've just reminded me of top gear

[RandomBass]

Never thought I'd hear anyone comparing the Compact to a Bedford Rascal, never mind the vendor lol.
I wonder how many foreign BC users are now googling said vehicle, and being disappointed lol. ;-)

[Bigwan]

I'll hear nothing against the humble Bedford Rascal... A fine conveyance. And fits a single bed mattress in the back almost perfectly... (drifts off remembering his youth through rose tinted puffy clouds....)

[Musicman20]

It's worth noting that I am MORE than happy to be proved wrong or that things have changed with the new Gen 3 compact, If that small 12" cab can perform like the original but with more high end, then that is only a good thing.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387204862' post='2309286']It's worth noting that I am MORE than happy to be proved wrong or that things have changed with the new Gen 3 compact, If that small 12" cab can perform like the original but with more high end, then that is only a good thing.[/quote]

Could you stop going on and on and on and on about the aesthetics of our cabs until you've seen one of the generation three examples then?

[charic]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1387205004' post='2309289']
Could you stop going on and on and on and on about the aesthetics of our cabs until you've seen one of the generation three examples then?
[/quote]

That depends... can you make me a version with smiley faces on the cones?

[dudi8]

i have a big baby 2 (the new generation) and i have to say its the best cab I've ever had, so small and light, but powerful as a 4x10 cab, i can't stop getting compliments about it by local bass players!

[discreet]

We had a Bedford Rascal once and we used it for metal. So there.

[Conan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1387205415' post='2309300']
We had a Bedford Rascal once and we used it for scrap metal. So there.
[/quote]

Fixed.

[discreet]

[size=4][quote name='Conan' timestamp='1387207255' post='2309331'][/size][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#282828]We had a Bedford Rascal once and we used it for scrap metal. So there.[/quote][/color][/size][/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#282828] That is in fact what happened to it. Amazing how much gear it would hold.[/color][/size][/font]

Edited December 16, 2013 by discreet