dabootsy Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I have played in original bands for twenty odd years and have just recently joined a rock covers band which isnt my first choice in music but it keeps me playing Since starting i have noticed that my playing has not gone forward but probably backwards as i dont have to use my artistic ear to make up cool or inventive basslines any more Has anyone else had the same experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 It potentially makes sense, but that's probably causing the problem IE it's probably all in your head. If you just start playing about at home, play the stuff you enjoy, push yourself etc, then you will be improving again. If you just keep playing the same things over and over again then you can't possibly improve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I think you can learn stuff from other peoples' tunes, but you can learn much more by creating your own. I also think creativity is in some respects a skill that can and will get rusty if you don't use it regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='dabootsy' post='220584' date='Jun 17 2008, 01:58 PM']I have played in original bands for twenty odd years and have just recently joined a rock covers band which isnt my first choice in music but it keeps me playing Since starting i have noticed that my playing has not gone forward but probably backwards as i dont have to use my artistic ear to make up cool or inventive basslines any more Has anyone else had the same experience[/quote] I'm in the same sort of position at the moment, not really my first choice of cover bands but as you say, keeps you out there and also it pays if you get regular work. I just take it for what it is, a normal working covers band, I don't get too wrapped up in it and look at it as not going backwards in your playing but calling on all the fundamental stuff you've learned over the years and using it to earn some cash, using creativity takes a back seat really for me, there's generally very little room "to do your own thing" unless we're covering material that requires it but a bog standard rock band, more often than not need a bass player, to play bass and get it together with the drummer in my experience. Sometimes it does feel as if your just going through the motions, so I try to sort that by learning different things or getting together with players that are nothing to do with rock covers bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 There is another post called 'Function Band vs Integrity Ramblings' that covers much of this but I agree with you. I justr read this in a book called 'Consdiering Genius' by Stanley Crouch, a leading Black American writer on aesthetics. [i]'Only the catatonic are incapable of feeling, but what separates the artist from others is more than the nature of his or her passion; it is the skill that allows an interior human feeling to move all the way out into the world as an objective artifact, replete with the synthesis of technical mastery and expression that makes for all living, as opposed to academic, art. Taste and opinion are always individual – or should be – and every writer will prefer certain styles, instrumentalists, singers and composers over others. What is essential, however, is integrity, an integrity based upon as clear a perception of the identity of the art as possible'[/i]. I think what you are describing is a very real risk in approaching the art form as a craft rather than as an art. There is, in my mind, an inherent risk in simply [i]rendering[/i] music instead of [i]making[/i] it. The mental process required to [i]create[/i] ideas as opposed to [i]mimic [/i] them is like a muscle you need to exercise. The skill Crouch speaks of is the muscle I am referring to. If you don't exercise it, it weakens. You gradually start to function more as an automaton and gradually lose the capacity to create in real time. Your choice to enter a covers band is entirely defensible but it carries a health warning. Keep your eyes on the prize. To paraphrase Ellis Marsalis, if you play for money or applause, that's all you will ever get. You are perfectly entitled to play in a covers bnad but I believe that you need to make sure you concurrently maintain a creative outlet that allows you to keep your ears and your [i]mind[/i] sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Doesn't sap my creativity at all. I play great basslines to audiences that love the songs and get paid for it. If we get bored of a song we drop it and learn some new ones. The originals I can play around with at home in my own time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabootsy Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='220614' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:34 PM']Doesn't sap my creativity at all. I play great basslines to audiences that love the songs and get paid for it. If we get bored of a song we drop it and learn some new ones. The originals I can play around with at home in my own time![/quote] I dont think learning a new song or bassline is the same as creating one, as the one being learnt,has already been created by someone else so no imagination is needed imho that doesnt mean to say the only great bassline is only written by oneself the reason for this post is because i listened to a demo of my old band and was knocked out by my own playing. Not highly technical but v imaginative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='220595' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:16 PM']I also think creativity is in some respects a skill that can and will get rusty if you don't use it regularly.[/quote] i'd agree with this - in similar position with covers band vs originals AND i'm also in the same position with my dayjob, which at the moment is seriously driving me into depression which i'm struggling against. I used to work as an artist/designer for a games company which was very creative at times and quite satisfying. Now, although i still produce what some may call 'artwork', its much more a production line type situation working from architects plans with no room to inject any ideas etc myself. This has pretty much sapped my creativity even when i get home and try to do stuff. Very, VERY annoying and not good at all. A similar thing with music although I'm starting to come out of that as I have a possible new originals project in the pipeline. peace c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 No, I think my creativity dried up about the time we started having kids and I got more of a management type job meeting clients etc. I was still doing just originals at the time. Playing in a busy covers band has helped my dexterity and consistency but not my creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Motor skills and muscle memory are one thing but I think what dabootsy is talking about is a right/left brain thing. If you deny your creative impulse, you are eventually left with highly developed motor skills but nothing to do with them but repeat and repeat and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 it also really depends on how you tackle the songs you are covering. i have found alot of rock stuff allows for a certain amount of improvisation without straying from the original feel of the tune, though some songs do have prominant bass lines that have to be played exactly. but then i am seeing it from just the covers side and would probably feel differently IF i had played in an originals band to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='dabootsy' post='220584' date='Jun 17 2008, 01:58 PM']I have played in original bands for twenty odd years and have just recently joined a rock covers band which isnt my first choice in music but it keeps me playing Since starting i have noticed that my playing has not gone forward but probably backwards as i dont have to use my artistic ear to make up cool or inventive basslines any more[/quote] Is this another original bands are better than cover bands thread? God I'm tired of this argument! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Different argument, Chris. This one is about losing it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='220610' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:32 PM']... To paraphrase Ellis Marsalis, if you play for money or applause, that's all you will ever get. [quote name='stingrayfan' post='220614' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:34 PM'] Doesn't sap my creativity at all. I play great basslines to audiences that love the songs and get paid for it.[/quote] [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='220655' date='Jun 17 2008, 03:23 PM']Different argument, Chris. This one is about losing it!!![/quote] All I know is, I was never impotent before my originals band broke up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) Ive found the approach that the bassline as written/recorded is merely a guide... see if you can better it whilst keeping the sense of the shape of the song/melody/progression etc. After all, just because someone wrote the bassline originally that doesn't mean that it is the best bassline for that song; simply the best bassline that the bassist/writer came up with I've been lucky in that the covers bands that I've been in, have been happy to let me be inventive (who said lazy). I love the approach of learning a song whereby you learn the gist of it (important hooks, riffs etc) and then you run with it and see where the band as a group of individuals can take it. That then 'forces' you to be imaginative! Edited June 17, 2008 by warwickhunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I have to keep on top of my playing, a creative outlet is a must for me, the same as earning money, I too think there is potential to lose sight of your creativity, I deal with it by keeping the bread and butter playing seperate from my creative playing.....If I just left my playing to learning a load of covers, playing them 3 times a week at gigs then put my bass away for the rest of the week, I know for a fact it would show in my technical ability and also my creative ability....but each to his own, some players are just born with these things that it doesn't matter how big a gap there is between playing and not playing/creating, they just seem to have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabootsy Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='chris_b' post='220654' date='Jun 17 2008, 03:22 PM']Is this another original bands are better than cover bands thread? God I'm tired of this argument![/quote] its not about wether one type of band is better than another as i said i am in a covers band myself it can just sometimes be a bit brain nullifying to copy a bassline that i do not believe is necessarily any good and just because the song maybe great doesnt mean the bassline is inspiring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi Dabootsy, yes we all have to play covers at times (and yes, it can get soul destroying!) I never play the original line, always making up my own (which is often more apt to the music!) Or at the least I "soup up" the original and make it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 For me in a word, No. But then my creative output is quite large in the projects I work in. Not only do I play bass in them but also to an extent MD and produce, so in industry speak I am considered a "creative" in those projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='jakesbass' post='220708' date='Jun 17 2008, 04:14 PM']...my creative output is quite large in the projects I work in.[/quote] It's an interesting point. I recall someone else here saying that their interests and energies were primarily in the area of composing/arranging/producing etc rather than bass playing. It sounds as if, for some of us, the creative impulse is not satisfied by the bass playing alone but by activities peripheral to that playing. I MD a small group as well (at the request of the frontman) but, because it is all covers, that doesn't really work for me either I can, however, see the potential of the role in these sense Jake describes it. Still a bit too 'craft' orientated for my aesthetic sensibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 For me, it certainly limits my technique to the demands of the songs for better or for worse. I don't really practice bass for its own sake any more because of the Grumpy Old Bugger living next door. Strangely enough he never seems to complain about the neighbours shagging though. However I've found some songs are demanding in terms of split second timing (like Ain't Nobody), and I can push other songs out a little. For example, the bass line to I Feel Love is pretty simple but if I add triplets up an octave it starts getting a bit more interesting. There are potentially a number of different ways I could play those triplets depending on the technique I choose. My creative impulses were fairly stifled last year primarily by a lack of chordal knowledge and so I ended up buying a guitar to help me learn the different voicings that were possible. Now I'm picking up some cool things for guitar in its own right as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I'm surprised that people feel iplaying cover limits or inhibits their creativity. By learning more and more songs you'll increase your 'lick library' and give yourself more chops/styles/ideas to draw on when creating your own. In fact I find the exact opposite, when I'm only playing original stuff I settle into a style and everything sounds the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='gilmour' post='220779' date='Jun 17 2008, 05:35 PM']I'm surprised that people feel iplaying cover limits or inhibits their creativity. By learning more and more songs you'll increase your 'lick library' and give yourself more chops/styles/ideas to draw on when creating your own. In fact I find the exact opposite, when I'm only playing original stuff I settle into a style and everything sounds the same[/quote] Same here to some extent. As you say playing a cover forces you into doing something that you might not otherwise have thought of. If trying to make things up I too have a (bad) habit of falling back on tried and tested stuff. Having said that the 'covers' band that I am in tends to do 'versions' rather than 'covers'. (My definition of the difference being a cover band tries to sound like the original, reproducing the same bass lines and guitar solos etc, whereas a 'versions' band takes the song and does its own thing with it.) So, to some extent you get the best of both worlds. With our band some songs come out slightly different to the original (eg alright now), others quite quite different (eg superstition) I suppose you could argue that doing versions instead of straight covers is a good excuse when you can't actually play the original correctly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 [quote name='Clive Thorne' post='220802' date='Jun 17 2008, 06:11 PM']Having said that the 'covers' band that I am in tends to do 'versions' rather than 'covers'. (My definition of the difference being a cover band tries to sound like the original, reproducing the same bass lines and guitar solos etc, whereas a 'versions' band takes the song and does its own thing with it.) So, to some extent you get the best of both worlds.[/quote] Yeah loads of musos have been doing that for years, grates me to see Mark Ronson's success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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