Rick 4001 Action

[lowlandtrees]

I have a 78 Rick 4001. Just re strung it with Rotosound Jazz flats 110 - 50. The action is very high. I had a pro set up a year and a half ago as I don 't feel comfortable messing with the double truss rod. Seemed OK at the time. Do these instruments have a high action anyway...the neck is pretty thin ..or do I need lighter strings...its getting expensive trying different strings...or do I need another set up.

[BigRedX]

What strings did you have on before? The same?

[Musky]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1376549811' post='2175680']
I have a 78 Rick 4001. Just re strung it with Rotosound Jazz flats 110 - 50. The action is very high. I had a pro set up a year and a half ago as I don 't feel comfortable messing with the double truss rod. Seemed OK at the time. Do these instruments have a high action anyway...the neck is pretty thin ..or do I need lighter strings...its getting expensive trying different strings...or do I need another set up.
[/quote]
You need another set up.

[url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Rick_maint.htm"]Joey's Bass Notes[/url] is very useful if you fancy giving it a go yourself.

[CHRISDABASS]

Another setup should do the trick.

There are lots of great setup guides on the internet. It will be very useful for you to learn these skills and it will save you money.

Sometimes just a quick tweak of the truss rod can transform the playabilty

[CHRISDABASS]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1376551215' post='2175698']

You need another set up.

[url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Rick_maint.htm"]Joey's Bass Notes[/url] is very useful if you fancy giving it a go yourself.
[/quote]

What he said! Haha

[4000]

Those are very high tension strings and very heavy gauge. I'd say you certainly need another set up, but would probably advise lower tension (and probably lighter) strings on a late '70s 4001, to be on the safe side. On a '70s P Bass, you'd probably be safer.

[4000]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1376550136' post='2175683']
What strings did you have on before? The same?
[/quote]

And this is the most pertinent question....you've picked just about the highest tension strings you could though, either way.

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1376566693' post='2176076']
Those are very high tension strings and very heavy gauge. I'd say you certainly need another set up, but would probably advise lower tension (and probably lighter) strings on a late '70s 4001, to be on the safe side. On a '70s P Bass, you'd probably be safer.
[/quote]
[quote name='4000' timestamp='1376566786' post='2176080']
And this is the most pertinent question....you've picked just about the highest tension strings you could though, either way.
[/quote]

A big +1 on both these points . Rick necks are not the most robust at the best of times , and those strings will be putting enough tension on that you could use the bass as a bow and arrow ! Leave them on for any length of time and you will very likely get serious problems developing . Either remove them , or the only other alternative is to tune the bass down a couple of steps to D to reduce the overall tension . If the strings are new you could try selling them in the Basschat classifieds and replace them with something a little less extreme . Flats put much more tension on a neck than the equivalent gauge of roundwound . Heavier flats don't sound better , either . They all sound fairly , well ... flat , regardless of gauge .

Edited August 15, 2013 by Dingus

[geoffbyrne]

Beware of messing with the truss rods on a 4001!!!

This is the model you have to loosen the rods, move the neck to where you want it to be, then re-tighten the rods with the neck clamped in place.

Not the sort of thing you can achieve in the living-room. You need a luthier or proper tech to do this.

4003s are ok though - same as any other truss rod adjustment, just double!

G.

[lowlandtrees]

No I did not feel good about messing with the rods. Thought that I was buying light guage strings. Last ones were Elixir. Have loosened them and re thinking. What guage and make of string then. I do like the feel of flats on the fingers

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1376600527' post='2176802']
No I did not feel good about messing with the rods. Thought that I was buying light guage strings. Last ones were Elixir. Have loosened them and re thinking. What guage and make of string then. I do like the feel of flats on the fingers
[/quote]
TI Jazz Flats are nice, low tension flatwounds but expensive. D'addario Tapewounds are flat feeling and low tension, and I rather like them.

[davehux]

I've had 2 4001's and I think there's a certain folklore built up about the trussrod adjustment and it's supposed myth of 'only let a techie touch it'

Yes, they are different to any other neck, in that you slacken off the nuts, bend the neck to the required relief and tighten them back up again, but to be honest it's not a big deal.

Keep the body clamped to something, and bend the neck over a soft fulcrum in the centre. It doesn't take a lot of pressure to bend it, so don't go at like like a bull at a gate, but it's not rocket science.

Also, forget forking out £stupid for a 'special' truss rod tool. the 1/4" nuts are the same as any screwdriver with changeable bits. Buy a long screwdriver extension bit holder (I paid 99p off eBay) and Robert's your mother's brother

Obviously I take no responsibility for you sending your fingerboard into the next street, but with a bit of care, a Ric can be adjusted by anyone with a bit of common sense

[BigRedX]

OK those Rotosounds are much higher tension and probably heavier than the Elixirs you had on before, so no wonder you've got more relief in the neck and higher action.

If you want some light low-tension flats then TI Jazz Flats are the ones to get. TBH after all of this once you've decided on your next set of strings unless you go back to the same gauge of Elixirs I'd take it back for another set up just to make sure everything is OK.

[lowlandtrees]

Which gauge TI flats should I go for? This is a subject that I know bugger all about. I had always assumed that string gauge and tension were directly related. How do you know which strings are high tension and which ones lower (probably a tigga nooby question) ?

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1376642986' post='2177160']
Which gauge TI flats should I go for? This is a subject that I know bugger all about. I had always assumed that string gauge and tension were directly related. How do you know which strings are high tension and which ones lower (probably a tigga nooby question) ?
[/quote]
I think TI flats only come in one gauge. They're lower tension than most other strings of the same gauge, as they have some sort of silk or synthetic winding between the core and outer layers, so have lower mass.

[Norris]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1376642986' post='2177160']
... I had always assumed that string gauge and tension were directly related. How do you know which strings are high tension and which ones lower (probably a tigga nooby question) ?
[/quote]
They [b]are[/b] directly related. The note pitch depends on the length of the string (scale), the mass of the string (gauge/thickness) and the tension.
The length of the string is usually fixed - by scale length & fret positions. The gauge and tension are then inversely proportional - the thicker the string the tighter it has to be to achieve the same pitch; to get lower tension you need lighter/thinner strings.


Edit: Many years ago (before the days of Internet forums) I had a 4001 and adjusted the truss rods without any prior knowledge that it was [i]supposed[/i] to be a difficult job. I didn't have any issues and got the action nice and low to suit my strings. Just be careful & logical and make sure the neck doesn't twist i.e. that the two rods have the same tension. Make small adjustments to both rods and never use excessive force.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Norris

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1376654368' post='2177392']
They [b]are[/b] directly related. The note pitch depends on the length of the string (scale), the mass of the string (gauge/thickness) and the tension.
The length of the string is usually fixed - by scale length & fret positions. The gauge and tension are then inversely proportional - the thicker the string the tighter it has to be to achieve the same pitch; to get lower tension you need lighter/thinner strings.
[/quote]

Mass of the string is not necessarily related to the gauge/thickness. Different materials have different masses. Not all strings are made out of the same material. Also a lot of the time what players describe as "tension" is actually "compliance" which is how stiff a string feels and is related to lots of other factors such as the construction of the string, break angles over the bridge and nut and amount of free string beyond the witness points (none of which affect the actual tension).

[lowlandtrees]

Damned expensive them there TI flats

[BigRedX]

No more so then any other decent string IME.

[gsgbass]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1376600958' post='2176810']
TI Jazz Flats are nice, low tension flatwounds but expensive. D'addario Tapewounds are flat feeling and low tension, and I rather like them.
[/quote]

I agree with you on the D'Addario ETB92 Nylon Tapewound strings. I use them on my 4003 with no problems. My intonation is right on also. I love the sounds, and they don't beat up the fretboard, or frets.

Edited August 17, 2013 by gsgbass

[beely]

I also have a 1978 4001.

The gauge of strings you are using would be a bit too heavy for my liking and may be the source of some of your problem.
I use D'Addario Chromes 45-100 and don't have any problem with getting a good action.

I have had the bass from new so my memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to recall the original strings on the guitar were actually even lighter than my current strings, perhaps 40-90.

I once put on a set of Rotosound wire-wound strings to see what difference they made to the sound.
They were quite a bit heavier than the strings on the bass, can't quite recall what the gauge was.
I barely got the strings up to concert pitch before the neck started to bend and the action got "quite high".
Needles to say, they came off pronto.