Before a Bass is "Reliced"...What is it?

[JamesBass]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1373486138' post='2138243']
Hmmmm.

I think if I was a savvy manufacturer I'd be 'relicing' any basses off of the production line that were cosmetically flawed.

Nice business model where you can sell off your 'rejects' for more than the prime model.
[/quote]

Simple and effective, I wonder how many manufacturers have actually twigged with this?!

Personally you should buy a new bass and take care of it and use it and then it will become relic'd in its own way and will have an authentic look and story.

It might just be me but the relic'd basses that you buy off the shelf are just too perfectly relic'd it doesn't look real?

[gjones]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1373461904' post='2137836']
Real quick -- a comparison view on reliced basses.

In my flat, I have a brick wall. I like that look. But the brick isn't actually in the wall. I brought a brick wall from a movie set -- which looks fine on camera but close up it's a little too "perfect." So I "reliced" it. Added some morter in between the rocks. Scuffed and chipped a few. Put a little stain here and there. A random smudge. Now, if you walked right up to it, you would not know it wasn't a real brick wall.

Am I being deceptive? Am I trying to fool people? No, I would gladly tell anyone what I did. I just like that rustic look.

That's the way I see reliced basses. If you like that look, you're entitled to have it.

BUT...

Whereas I see one as an art project, I see a pre -reliced bass off of an assembly line that looks like a thousand others is kinda lame. (Sorry).

So I was wondering -- what model bass do they start with before the "relic?" It's not a MIA, that's for sure. And are we expected to pay for the scratches?

I guess my point is -- if there's an additional cost to a road worn bass, why not just start out with what they start out with? Do the antiquing yourself, save some money and have your bass more personalized. It just seems to make sense.

Does anyone know?
[/quote]

I'm drawn to the roadworn Jazzes but paradoxically think the whole 'roadworn' thing is just a bit naff. I think I need psychiatric help.

[icastle]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1373494163' post='2138374']
Simple and effective, I wonder how many manufacturers have actually twigged with this?!
[/quote]

All of the ones who do 'off the shelf' reliced guitars I'd imagine.

They can't sell 'flawed' guitars without impacting their brand image and refinishing them probably takes more time than running an unfinished one down the production line.

It's sensible business practice to ensure that the production line throughput is proportionate to the number of instruments they are able to sell and a 'refinish' will slow down production.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1373486138' post='2138243']
Hmmmm.

I think if I was a savvy manufacturer I'd be 'relicing' any basses off of the production line that were cosmetically flawed.

Nice business model where you can sell off your 'rejects' for more than the prime model.
[/quote]

Interesting. But the Roadworns are MIM, AMD nothing from their is nitro finished. The Highway ones are though, and are only over the boarder.

[icastle]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1373494878' post='2138381']
Interesting. But the Roadworns are MIM, AMD nothing from their is nitro finished. The Highway ones are though, and are only over the boarder.
[/quote]

I'm only guessing.

...but from purely business and logistical perspectives, it's certainly what I'd be doing.

Perhaps there are unmarked lorries crossing the border at the dead of night...

[Lowender]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1373494878' post='2138381']
Interesting. But the Roadworns are MIM, AMD nothing from their is nitro finished. The Highway ones are though, and are only over the boarder.
[/quote]

So you;re saying that the Roadworns are just MIM's? But MIM' are poly?!?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1373494773' post='2138380']
They can't sell 'flawed' guitars without impacting their brand image and refinishing them probably takes more time than running an unfinished one down the production line.[/quote]

Couple things.

In the old days at Fender, a flawed sunburst would be over-sprayed with a solid colour. Similarly, dodgy 'light' colours would be over-sprayed with a dark colour. Sometimes they'd use a 'custom' colour and charge more than they would have done for the original.

The Mex relicing is done to a factory template that leaves the instruments with pretty much identical dings, scratches. The range of items used to make the dings is quite limited. Thus many of the dings are the same shape and depth which detracts from the aesthetic. Apparently the US custom shop uses a wider range of ding-plements and takes greater trouble in placing and shaping them.

Not [i]all[/i] Mex relic output is poly. My Wayne Kramer Strat has a nitro body (which is nice and silky to the touch) but I dunno about the basses.

As for 'proper' musos scorning relics - well, the whole thing started when Keith Richards asked the custom shop for copies of his iconic Teles in order that he might avoid taking the precious originals on the road.

So Fender made them. Keith goes to look at them. 'Can't you bang them up a bit to make them look more like the real ones?' Dutifully, Fender take the tools to them. Next thing they know, Keith has (typically) changed his mind and doesn't want them.

Deciding they might as well make a few bob out of the exercise, Fender displayed the guitars at NAMM, the dealers went crazy and the whole relicing thing kicked off.

Edited July 11, 2013 by skankdelvar

[icastle]

Well in my world I'm still seeing Lee Van Cleef smuggling MIA's into Mexico on donkeys and an inordinately large number of sombreros giving chase...




(Note to Ped - can I have a sombrero smiley..?)

[pobrien_ie]

I have no problem with basses with aged finishes. Many do, I know, but each to their own. I have a Roadworn P, that I quite like. In isolation the aging is fine, but the generic nature of the Roadworn series looks stupid when others are side by side. I also bought a body of a Highway One P Bass that was a bit worn. I used some cellulose thinner on it to help it match the aged look of the Roadworn P neck I put on it. Would I relic a new bass? No, not a chance.

I'm not trying to make people believe it's a genuine vintage basses, but I don't really care what others think either way. I like that I don't need to obsess about the first scratch etc.

I don't like the homemade relics on poly finishes. IMO, the aging process is only suitable for nitro finishes (of which the Roadworn and Highway One Series are/were).

I was waiting for the 'would you buy a beaten up car or would you relic your own car' argument, but that may be more of a TB thing. Would I buy a 1967 P Bass that looked like it had seen better days? Yes. Would I buy a 1967 Mustang that looked like a wreck? No. An Apples and oranges argument IMO.

The irony of me starting this argument is not lost on me

Rant / musings over.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1373537646' post='2138689']
I was waiting for the 'would you buy a beaten up car or would you relic your own car' argument
[/quote]
Don't worry that has been mentioned many times before on here.

[tonyquipment]

Worthless.

[dlloyd]

I can think of one major plus point for relics: less worries about dings affecting resale value.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1373537646' post='2138689']
I was waiting for the 'would you buy a beaten up car or would you relic your own car' argument, but that may be more of a TB thing. Would I buy a 1967 P Bass that looked like it had seen better days? Yes. Would I buy a 1967 Mustang that looked like a wreck? No. An Apples and oranges argument IMO.
[/quote]

The thin nitro finish seems to be a very US thing and then mainly Fender - you never seem to see Gibson guitars (which get played just as much) with as much wear as the average old Fender bass.

Personally I don't much like worn instruments. I think it looks shabby and one person's wear pattern is unlikely to match another's, so even if you were to buy a well used instrument it could still look "fake" - a worn thumb mark over the bridge PU on a Jazz when the current player only ever uses the neck PU or thumb rest.

I would have no problem buying an instrument that looked like a wreck provided that it played and sounded fantastic and was structurally sound. However the first thing I would do after confirming that it was exactly the right instrument for me would be to send it off to someone like Sims to have the finish restored to near new quality. Be thankful that I am not a fan of vintage Fenders.

Edited July 11, 2013 by BigRedX

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1373537646' post='2138689']
I was waiting for the 'would you buy a beaten up car or would you relic your own car' argument, but that may be more of a TB thing. Would I buy a 1967 P Bass that looked like it had seen better days? Yes. Would I buy a 1967 Mustang that looked like a wreck? No. An Apples and oranges argument IMO.
.....
[/quote]

I live in London so my car gets relic'd whether I like it or not.

People buy relic'd jeans, jackets and T shirts. In the old days you knew when you got new jeans people would take the mick

I like scruffy Fenders, my 70s ones were all genuinely worn (as far as I know) when I got them. I've added quite a lot of wear and dings over the years, I like that I don't have to be precious about them as long as they still work.

My Status basses however I try to look after, there's some wear over the pickups, on the edge of the neck and around the controls but otherwise they're pretty much pristine.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Fat Rich

[pobrien_ie]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1373541750' post='2138771']
The thin nitro finish seems to be a very US thing and then mainly Fender - you never seem to see Gibson guitars (which get played just as much) with as much wear as the average old Fender bass.

Personally I don't much like worn instruments. I think it looks shabby and one person's wear pattern is unlikely to match another's, so even if you were to buy a well used instrument it could still look "fake" - a worn thumb mark over the bridge PU on a Jazz when the current player only ever uses the neck PU or thumb rest.

I would have no problem buying an instrument that looked like a wreck provided that it played and sounded fantastic and was structurally sound. However the first thing I would do after confirming that it was exactly the right instrument for me would be to send it off to someone like Sims to have the finish restored to near new quality. Be thankful that I am not a fan of vintage Fenders.
[/quote]

Good points, well made. I'm sure Fender weren't happy when they saw their finishes wearing so quickly, probably some of the reason (although I think H&S might of been a factor) as to why they changed how they do things.

Maybe it's a bit of a fad that people like that look, but ultimately, and as with everything, some do and some don't.

Whe we talk about real aging though, I'm sure I'd leave it as is. Not because of resale value, but because it's the character of the bass. Would I leave a dent in my car? No...well, at the moment yes because I've just put one on it and haven't been bothered to do antyhing about it just yet

In conclusion,
basses - important, cars - meh

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1373542771' post='2138807']
Good points, well made. I'm sure Fender weren't happy when they saw their finishes wearing so quickly, probably some of the reason (although I think H&S might of been a factor) as to why they changed how they do things.
............
[/quote]

Yup, nitro is 'orrible stuff. Fender used car paint for availability and price, but switched to poly because it's less toxic and dries much much quicker.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1373542771' post='2138807']
Whe we talk about real aging though, I'm sure I'd leave it as is. Not because of resale value, but because it's the character of the bass.
[/quote]

I don't feel the same, because it's not my character/mojo but someone else's. If I'm going to use an instrument I want it to be "mine".

I've actually already had a bass refinished because I didn't like the wear that a previous owner had inflicted upon it. The red Gus G3 that is currently my main bass, when I bought it second hand it was in terrible condition. The original purple/green flip paint was flaking off as was a lot of the chrome on the horns and some of the covers were missing. However it did go back to Simon Farmer (the man behind the Gus Guitars name) and he did a stunning job restoring it to almost new condition. When I get it back apart from a bit of fret wear, it looked like a brand new instrument and consequently has got a lot of use. I doubt I'd be playing it as much if it was still in the same shabby condition as it was when I bought it.

[4 Strings]

I'm not a fan of relicking (surely there has to be a 'k in there if we're to use that noun as a verb? - I'm not even a fan of the word!) but surely its about things being available instantly. Want the old look? Can't wait 30-40 years, I want it now.

Trouble is you often see 5 strings or other modern features on these basses and it looks either like an obvious fake or the owner has abused his bass. Can see the point of neither.

[pobrien_ie]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1373552132' post='2138963']
I'm not even a fan of the word!

[/quote]

I can definitely agree with that

[BigRedX]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1373552132' post='2138963']
Trouble is you often see 5 strings or other modern features on these basses and it looks either like an obvious fake or the owner has abused his bass. Can see the point of neither.
[/quote]

I own two 5-string basses that are almost 30 years old (one was made in 1983/84 and the other "around 1985") so IMO having 5 strings is no longer a modern feature.

Having said that despite the fact that both have been heavily used - one was my main bass through the 90s and was played on average at least an hour a day every day and around 100 gigs in all sorts of venues; the other previously belonged to a fairly high profile session player and had been all around the world with him - neither exhibit the kind of wear that you see on Fenders that are only a few years older.

[skankdelvar]

Buy a 'reliced' guitar and one is all sorts of a fraud. Buy a guitar that's had a bit of a life and one is a respectable connoisseur of mojo.

Gig a guitar that's covered in dings that one didn't cause oneself and ... Well, does it matter whether it's relic-ed or someone else's 'old faithful' you bought?

Point is, one didn't put the dings there oneself. Doesn't matter if it was a factory worker or another player. In such instances, one ding is as misrepresentative as any other. So anyone who buys a genuinely dinged-up instrument should send it off to be refinished, because [i]they[/i] didn't put the dings there [i]themselves[/i]? Because they should have bought a new one and gigged it for decades?

Tripe, isn't it?

And what about Re-issues? Surely that's just another attempt to con others into thinking one owns an old or rare instrument? One might as well impute laziness or dishonest self-aggrandisement to everybody toting [i]anything[/i] other than their original-owner antique or contemporary instrument.

It's all bollocks, see. The problem is not in the instruments. It's in the minds of the beholders, whether 'for' or 'against' relics. As we know, minds are funny things and can be discounted for all practical purposes.

Relic-ing is fine and follows in a perfectly honourable tradition of age-related dissimulation (see neo-Gothic; shabby chic; reproduction Chippendale). If one doesn't like relics, don't buy one. If one does, fill your boots.
[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited July 11, 2013 by skankdelvar

[Muzz]

Before a bass is reliced, what is it? Doomed?

Anyway, the best thing I've taken from this thread is the word 'ding-plements'. Genius, as always.

[Dandelion]

I am a reliced teenager.

[Telebass]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1373463198' post='2137870']
Do it the authentic way.
Buy a nice new bass and then gig it for 40 years.
To me that is the only way to relic a bass.
[/quote]
This.

[Telebass]

I'll add to that the fact that reissues and vintage are also a waste of time in my book. I just buy something current, say a MIM or MIA Fender, mod it if required, then gig it. I love basses, but they are also tools to be used.